Microsoft Patents FAT

[Warrior]

As for ext2/3 - you're right, but I don't think that there's a way to install Linux on NTFS either.    Realistically, you *could* modify Windows to boot from ext2/3 as long as you could modify the portion of the executive and kernel that is started when Windows is first being booted.

I was speaking about natively installing ext2/3 FS and modifying windows to use it would be a *HUGE* tweak including the way windows searches for files and displays them. Windows I don't think is built that flexible to allow you to just plug in which FS the kernel uses and abstracts.

[Joe]

NTFS was developed for Windows operating systems that were based off the NT kernel which Windows 95/98 did not use

It's encryption, compression and user permissions are definately some of it's impressive aspects.

Duh.  I should give you the Mr. Obvious award

Yay, thought I was the only one who noticed.

EDIT -

there is no way to naitively install them

Uh, bootdisk?

[MyndFyre]

I was speaking about natively installing ext2/3 FS and modifying windows to use it would be a *HUGE* tweak including the way windows searches for files and displays them. Windows I don't think is built that flexible to allow you to just plug in which FS the kernel uses and abstracts.

The kernel sees an abstract view of the filesystem through the Installable File System.  That's what allows drivers to operate, such as the ext2/ext3 drivers.

The real trick to it though would be to trick the system into believing that the Ext2/ext3 systems are built-in components.  Maybe someone should reverse-engineer the WinFS setup while it's still in beta and see what changes it makes and how it's registered.  Furthermore, depending on how the driver system is constructed, Explorer might not be able to identify that it's an ext2 drive in Windows Explorer (it might alternatively say "Unknown partition" or something similar).  That depends on whether the driver or the explorer.exe program provides the partition type name string.  I'm almost positive it would be impossible to format a drive to ext2/3 without modifying explorer.exe or providing a new shell (that functionality is built into explorer.exe itself).

I don't think it's THAT different though.  The file system still shares similar structures with Windows, such as folders.  It's just that / would become a root folder for a disk drive.  ntldr would need to be modified to accomodate that.

[Newby]

(back on topic..)

Do you think Microsoft can do anything to Apple for utilizing the FAT filesystem on the iPod? Like, charge per production of unit for supporting FAT?

I think that's hilarious if they can.

[Eric]

(back on topic..)

Do you think Microsoft can do anything to Apple for utilizing the FAT filesystem on the iPod? Like, charge per production of unit for supporting FAT?

I think that's hilarious if they can.

Or all of the other flash drives that exist in mp3 players, portable hard drives, etc?  Or all of the FAT32 formatted removeable media such as floppy disks, zip disks, etc?  Doubtful.

[Nate]

You guys are dreaming. 

iPod sold unformatted-->Plug into PC--->Windows Msg: Would you like to format your iPod in FAT? (some additional charges may apply)

M$ wants money from Apple, Apple isnt going to pay them you are.

[Warrior]

I was speaking about natively installing ext2/3 FS and modifying windows to use it would be a *HUGE* tweak including the way windows searches for files and displays them. Windows I don't think is built that flexible to allow you to just plug in which FS the kernel uses and abstracts.

The kernel sees an abstract view of the filesystem through the Installable File System.  That's what allows drivers to operate, such as the ext2/ext3 drivers.

The real trick to it though would be to trick the system into believing that the Ext2/ext3 systems are built-in components.  Maybe someone should reverse-engineer the WinFS setup while it's still in beta and see what changes it makes and how it's registered.  Furthermore, depending on how the driver system is constructed, Explorer might not be able to identify that it's an ext2 drive in Windows Explorer (it might alternatively say "Unknown partition" or something similar).  That depends on whether the driver or the explorer.exe program provides the partition type name string.  I'm almost positive it would be impossible to format a drive to ext2/3 without modifying explorer.exe or providing a new shell (that functionality is built into explorer.exe itself).

I don't think it's THAT different though.  The file system still shares similar structures with Windows, such as folders.  It's just that / would become a root folder for a disk drive.  ntldr would need to be modified to accomodate that.

I always thought it was a plugin into Explorer which allowed you to view ext2/3 formatted media. Cool.

[Warrior]

Nate: They wouldn't be able to since it's formatted using Windows a product you own. It would only work if another company used the FAT filesystem (with the LFN extensions) and sold it for money.

[MyndFyre]

I always thought it was a plugin into Explorer which allowed you to view ext2/3 formatted media. Cool.

Nope.  IIRC, CreateFile() (thunk) -> (kernel) NtCreateFile() -> IFS -> HAL -> IFS -> kernel -> Win32 API.

[Joe]

FAT32 formatted removeable media such as floppy disks

Floppy disks are formatted with FAT12.

[MyndFyre]

FAT32 formatted removeable media such as floppy disks

Floppy disks are formatted with FAT12.

They *could* be though, like ZIP disks could be formatted with NTFS.  It's a hack, but it's theoretically possible.  You'd be wasting a lot of space though.

[Joe]

Anyone smart enough to hack Windows to allow a floppy to be FAT32 or NTFS formatted is also smart enough not to tell Microsoft. =p

[Newby]

Yeah, who the fuck would willingly tell Microsoft they broke their restriction on putting NTFS on a floppy disk anyhow?!

[Nate]

Nate: They wouldn't be able to since it's formatted using Windows a product you own. It would only work if another company used the FAT filesystem (with the LFN extensions) and sold it for money.

Uh they can definately charge you.  M$ would consider it a service in order to make a third-party peripheral compatable with Windows.

[Joe]

Yeah, who the fuck would willingly tell Microsoft they broke their restriction on putting NTFS on a floppy disk anyhow?!

Holy crap.