Perspectives.

[d&q]

I want to know why people think killing is bad. Yeah. I mean, I'm not necessarily arguing that is is wrong/right, I'm wondering WHY you think its wrong(possibly right?). Many topics and arguments have dealt almost directly with death/arguable murder, such as capital punishment and abortion. Why is it that many people feel almost nothing in terms of grief when they read (miner killed in mudslide in Russia), but feel grief when someone close to you has died. I would think, whenever someone dies, its because you loved them and would miss them. But what exactly does do you miss about them? If someone managed to completely duplicate the person's body and personality, would that fulfill the emptiness? Or do you believe the person has a soul, and that soul is forever lost? That also leads me to another question. I'll relate to it in terms of cars(since many of you love them :)). If you had a car, and replaced the interior and the engine, you would still consider it the same car. What if you then replaced the tires? Then the rims? If you eventually replace all of it, would it still be the car you so dearly loved? How much of a thing can be missing until the part you loved is gone?

Feel free to seperate alot of this, it was just questions popping up in my head that I would like answered.

[CrAz3D]

uhm, taking a life ... takes their life away.  That cant be too fun for them.

As far as the connection, yeah, I feel closer to people I know.  Like if one of you guys died I'd miss talkin with you...but I would get over it quicker than if my mom died.

[MyndFyre]

I want to know why people think killing is bad. Yeah. I mean, I'm not necessarily arguing that is is wrong/right, I'm wondering WHY you think its wrong(possibly right?). Many topics and arguments have dealt almost directly with death/arguable murder, such as capital punishment and abortion.

Some sociologists/political theorists might argue that it is because, when we become part of society, we give tacit agreement not to kill one another.  Everyone wants to live; in fact, Locke theorized that it is one of three basic rights (life, liberty, and property).  In order to preserve the right to life, we agree not to infringe on others' rights to life.  (There was one other right Locke offered -- the right to, essentially, be judge, jury, and executioner when one of your other three rights are violated).  Because we expect everyone to abide by the social contract, killing someone else - thereby depriving them of their right to life - is negatively stigmatized.  It's also indicative that you are willing to sacrifice your own right to life, which is where the death penalty comes from.  ("If someone tries to kill you, you kill them right back.  You got a right to live and try to kill people, just like anyone else." --Mal Reynolds).

Why is it that many people feel almost nothing in terms of grief when they read (miner killed in mudslide in Russia), but feel grief when someone close to you has died. I would think, whenever someone dies, its because you loved them and would miss them. But what exactly does do you miss about them?

This is somewhat a separate question to answer.  Social psychology answers it through social evolutionary theory: what is the prime goal of all organisms?  To survive and pass on their genetic material.  Your kin are much closer to your kin genetically than that miner in Russia.  We develop socially in ways that reinforce this sense or desire of preservation.

If someone managed to completely duplicate the person's body and personality, would that fulfill the emptiness? Or do you believe the person has a soul, and that soul is forever lost?

Since I'm not sure whether a "soul" (or what I equate it to, sentience) can be replaced or is forever lost.  It's too abstract a question for me to answer, although I believe that "it would never be the same."

That also leads me to another question. I'll relate to it in terms of cars(since many of you love them :)). If you had a car, and replaced the interior and the engine, you would still consider it the same car. What if you then replaced the tires? Then the rims? If you eventually replace all of it, would it still be the car you so dearly loved? How much of a thing can be missing until the part you loved is gone?

I imagine if I put that much into the car, it would still be the same car, and I would love it all the more.

[d&q]

For now I'm just going to reply to one part of your great response  ;D.

What I mean is, what if you completely replaced the original parts of the car over time? You might be able to love it, but would you love it as the original car you bought? Or as a better, new car?

[MyndFyre]

For now I'm just going to reply to one part of your great response  ;D.

What I mean is, what if you completely replaced the original parts of the car over time? You might be able to love it, but would you love it as the original car you bought? Or as a better, new car?

The same car.

[d&q]

How about in terms of people? If you truly loved someone(my definition of love is a passion for someone that is endless, but thats arguable), and they left for 10 years, had a complete incorrigible personality change, and extensive drug use and plastic surgery to the point of being unrecognizable, would you still love them? And I mean really love them, not have lingering caring feelings.

[iago]

Didn't I read somewhere that our skin is completely replaced every 6 months, or something?  That's kind of the same idea. :P

[Eric]

Didn't I read somewhere that our skin is completely replaced every 6 months, or something?  That's kind of the same idea. :P

The neurons in our brains are continuously dying, being replaced and forming new connections, as well.  Physically, our bodies are constantly undergoing change.  You, for example, aren't the same person you were a month ago, or even a few moments ago for that matter.  Who are you, iago?!

[dark_drake]

I want to know why people think killing is bad. Yeah. I mean, I'm not necessarily arguing that is is wrong/right, I'm wondering WHY you think its wrong(possibly right?). Many topics and arguments have dealt almost directly with death/arguable murder, such as capital punishment and abortion.

I liked MyndFyre's answer.  Also, though, it's against nearly every religion's code of ethics to do this sort of thing.  For example, the Ten Commandments forbid killing in Christianity and the Noble Eightfold Path forbids it in Buddhism.

Why is it that many people feel almost nothing in terms of grief when they read (miner killed in mudslide in Russia), but feel grief when someone close to you has died. I would think, whenever someone dies, its because you loved them and would miss them.

There is no emotional attachment to that miner, so we just think, "oh well, shit happens."  We don't actually realize what grief that miner's death would have caused to his loved one. When someone dies close to us, we have lost someone very near and dear to us.  There is a hole in our lives where that person used to be.

But what exactly does do you miss about them? If someone managed to completely duplicate the person's body and personality, would that fulfill the emptiness? Or do you believe the person has a soul, and that soul is forever lost?

I'd probably miss everything about the person.  Also, I actually believe that the soul is not duplicable, and therefore, that the person is not the same.  When that person dies, his soul leaves this plane of existance.  I realize that they'd act the same, but I would be unable to treat them as such as they just aren't them.

That also leads me to another question. I'll relate to it in terms of cars(since many of you love them :)). If you had a car, and replaced the interior and the engine, you would still consider it the same car. What if you then replaced the tires? Then the rims? If you eventually replace all of it, would it still be the car you so dearly loved? How much of a thing can be missing until the part you loved is gone?

Well, I would feel it's the same car.  I wouldn't change something I didn't want/need in it, so I would still love it just as much, if not more.
[/quote]

How about in terms of people? If you truly loved someone(my definition of love is a passion for someone that is endless, but thats arguable), and they left for 10 years, had a complete incorrigible personality change, and extensive drug use and plastic surgery to the point of being unrecognizable, would you still love them? And I mean really love them, not have lingering caring feelings.

As I've never loved someone that much, I don't feel I'm qualified to give a good answer.  However, my answer is no, I wouldn't love them.  They completely changed for the worse, and the parts I would have fallen in love with are gone.  It's very different from the idea of replacing the parts of a car.  Everytime I would have changed the car, it would have been an improvement or something necessary to keep it going, so the car would become more of what I would want and love.

[Joe]

Here's my reasoning: "Thou shalt not kill."

[d&q]

That's not reasoning.

[Sidoh]

That's not reasoning.

Yes it is.  Despite its convoluted nature, it is reasoning.

[Joe]

Here's two situations:

Guy 1: Kill that dude.
Guy 2: Ok.
Guy 3 dies.
Guy 1: Now kill that dude.
Guy 4: Ok.
Guy 2 dies.

If I'm going to kill someone for no reason, who's to say I'm protected from that same fate? By my same "why not" reasoning, the fourth person has every reason in the world to kill the second (me).

Second:

Guy 1: Kill that dude.
Guy 2: Ok.
Guy 3 dies.
God: Haha, looks like fun.
Guy 2 dies.

God doesn't like it when you kill people. Who's to say you won't make him mad?

EDIT -
Of course, I don't expect everyone here to accept the second, but the first should be good.

[Hitmen]

There is nothing wrong with killing. Those stupid liberals are just trying to take away our rights to kill as we please.

[TeHFoOoL]

There is nothing wrong with killing. Those stupid liberals are just trying to take away our rights to kill as we please.

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Uh. Hopefully I'm misinterpreting you when I think that you believe that anyone can kill anyone else without punishment?