Do you believe in God, or Evolution?

[GameSnake]

The timeless question.

[BigAznDaddy]

Everything is proven through Science  ;D

[Sidoh]

The important thing to remember when comparing God to evolution is this:

  According to Christianity (and many other religions), God didn't just create life.  He created the Universe.

  Evolution doesn't provide any sort of explanation as to where the rest of the Universe came from.

Everything is proven through Science  ;D

False.  Unless necessary evidence is provided, Science produces theories, not facts.  For example, science does not answer why we are here or how we got here.

[rabbit]

Sty, you're forgetting religion is a bit wacky sometimes.  There are a lot of people who believe the world was created not so long ago, and a lot of them believe (IIRC) that God made everything appear as it is.  To them, scientific evidence means diddly-squat.

[BigAznDaddy]

The important thing to remember when comparing God to evolution is this:

  According to Christianity (and many other religions), God didn't just create life.  He created the Universe.

  Evolution doesn't provide any sort of explanation as to where the rest of the Universe came from.


False.  Unless necessary evidence is provided, Science produces theories, not facts.  For example, science does not answer why we are here or how we got here.

Ok i guess Science does not provide evidence of how the universe was created but it does provide evidence of how we are alive today.

[Sidoh]

Sty, you're forgetting religion is a bit wacky sometimes.  There are a lot of people who believe the world was created not so long ago, and a lot of them believe (IIRC) that God made everything appear as it is.  To them, scientific evidence means diddly-squat.

Regardless of everything science can do, it can not prove that evolution is the case.  They can't prove that it's more than a theory.  Therefore, anyone who believes in it is taking the same leap of faith that religious people do when they choose to believe that a deity created the Universe.

Ok i guess Science does not provide evidence of how the universe was created but it does provide evidence of how we are alive today.

No, it provides speculation and little evidence supporting that speculation.

[rabbit]

Azn, have you never heard of the Big Bang theory?  Hush please.

[ZeroX]

The important thing to remember when comparing God to evolution is this:

  According to Christianity (and many other religions), God didn't just create life.  He created the Universe.

  Evolution doesn't provide any sort of explanation as to where the rest of the Universe came from.

Everything is proven through Science  ;D

False.  Unless necessary evidence is provided, Science produces theories, not facts.  For example, science does not answer why we are here or how we got here.

It provides enough evidence to determine that we evolved from some type of entity. Like why do bugs get Immune to some bug repelents after being sprayed? It shows that Natrual selection is possible and is still going on today. The only thing that proves this Theory wrong is the fact that why isnt a primative ape still evolving to a man. I cant answer that one.

Iam pretty much null and void on this one. There is so much evidence for both sides that you cant really tell. Maybe we will find out when we die?

[Kaleeko]

Science is not a set of definites, because it's constantly changing. Whether we rely on it completely for our basis of existance or not, it's not going to provide all the answers. Ever. Neither is religion, because there is such a vast range of religions in existance that have conflicting ideas.

Then, simply, both science and religion are a way to explain the world around us to the fullest possible extent we make it. Even if you view through the eyes of religion, science still does provide a way for us to explain things that happen in the world. Religion doesn't entirely neglect science. It does use it. The Catholic church, for example, has accepted a vast majority of scientific ideas because, well, the easiest way to put it is that science and religion deal with the same things. They can't be seperated.

If you take this view into light, then you can see science as a way of explaining some of the things "God" did. While it's said that he created the world in seven days, were they our days, or were they "God" days, which can be timeless? If that's the case, then evolution may be a way to explain how God created the earth.

It would make sense for God to create the planet with a history, even if he didn't actually let the history happen itself. If this "God" is all powerful, then he can do anything. Even put bones on the planet of dinosaurs that never actually lived, even though the evidence that they did is everywhere. He could do it.

So, in a way, I agree with Sty, but in a different way. Science and religion cannot be seperated, and I find that the best way to believe in any sort of "Creation" story is to believe in both.

[Sidoh]

It provides enough evidence to determine that we evolved from some type of entity. Like why do bugs get Immune to some bug repelents after being sprayed? It shows that Natrual selection is possible and is still going on today. The only thing that proves this Theory wrong is the fact that why isnt a primative ape still evolving to a man. I cant answer that one.

Correct, evolution is a reality.  However, it is evident and obvious that we are not speaking of evolution in this context.  Small genetic mutations that grant immunity to some sort of substance that was toxic to a former strain of said organism isn't "evolution" in the context of one-celled organisms evolving into complex beings such as humans, dolphins, whales or monkeys (and obviously a slew of other things).

In conclusion, I don't disagree that evolution is a sensible answer to how we got here, but it's important to realize that it is nothing more than a theory.  I do, however, believe that doesn't answer where the Universe came from (neither does the Big Bang theory.  It simply answers how the Universe as we know it originated).

Science is not a set of definites, because it's constantly changing. Whether we rely on it completely for our basis of existance or not, it's not going to provide all the answers. Ever. Neither is religion, because there is such a vast range of religions in existance that have conflicting ideas.

Yep.  As I already said, for answers as complex as existence, Science can propose little more than speculative theories.

The thing about religion is it provides answers to said complex questions involving things such as existence.  It does not answer all questions, but it does answer fundamental questions which science will never be able to answer beyond theories which have the inherent trait of doubt.  If you have faith and believe that, say, Christianity is the truth, otherwise impossible questions have been answered.

Then, simply, both science and religion are a way to explain the world around us to the fullest possible extent we make it. Even if you view through the eyes of religion, science still does provide a way for us to explain things that happen in the world. Religion doesn't entirely neglect science. It does use it. The Catholic church, for example, has accepted a vast majority of scientific ideas because, well, the easiest way to put it is that science and religion deal with the same things. They can't be seperated.

What do you mean by "the vast majority of scientific ideas?"  What kind of scientific ideas?  I really doubt they've accepted evolution or the big bang, which are two of the largest ideas in science (especially since they both encompass other ideas and conclusions to base their reasoning on).

If you take this view into light, then you can see science as a way of explaining some of the things "God" did. While it's said that he created the world in seven days, were they our days, or were they "God" days, which can be timeless? If that's the case, then evolution may be a way to explain how God created the earth.

Since a day is a unit of measurement invented by humans, I would easily conclude that 'seven days' is measured in 'human days.'

It's sort of a moot point, though.  What does it matter?

It would make sense for God to create the planet with a history, even if he didn't actually let the history happen itself. If this "God" is all powerful, then he can do anything. Even put bones on the planet of dinosaurs that never actually lived, even though the evidence that they did is everywhere. He could do it.

Or preemptively plan a series of events that deceive our imperfect methods of measuring the age of some object.

So, in a way, I agree with Sty, but in a different way. Science and religion cannot be seperated, and I find that the best way to believe in any sort of "Creation" story is to believe in both.

I don't understand what you mean.  Why can't science and religion be separated?  Especially for issues such as the creation and fate of the Universe, I don't see how the two can be used interchangeably or concurrently.

[BigAznDaddy]

Azn, have you never heard of the Big Bang theory?  Hush please.

No I haven't, but can you please explain it to me?

[Kaleeko]

What do you mean by "the vast majority of scientific ideas?"  What kind of scientific ideas?  I really doubt they've accepted evolution or the big bang, which are two of the largest ideas in science (especially since they both encompass other ideas and conclusions to base their reasoning on).

I'm unsure about evolution (I may have read something somewhere about the church declaring at least "recognition" of Darwin's theory, but I could be entirely wrong), but things like Galileo, for instance. In the past, scientific ideas like that were looked down on. But in today's modern world, science is taught in school, and children are brought up to both accept science, and if their family is religious, and religion, not choose one or the other. We often take for granted that our society lets us study science and accept it as well as accept a faith. In the past, this wasn't possible. Everything was explained through myths and "God only knows". We're very lucky we live in an age that grasps both.

I don't understand what you mean.  Why can't science and religion be separated?  Especially for issues such as the creation and fate of the Universe, I don't see how the two can be used interchangeably or concurrently.

If you seperate them, than you have to choose between two ways the Universe was formed. Both have their bright points, both have their downfalls. The unfortunate thing is, we can't surely know which is correct, and it leads to a lot of confusion, which may be holding us back. Is it wise, then to seperate two entirely good theories? You could think of it as how Einstein wished for the Unification of Gravity and Electromagnitism. While the matters are entirely different, finding a way to join the two together might prove both a way to simplify things, and might actually be a way for us to learn even more.

This is completely idealistic, though. There's really no proof that says allowing the two major philosophies of Creation to be joined will actually do much of anything but cause disruption. It's just an idea, though, and I personally have never believed in one or the other. I see both as good ways to explain our birth, and accept both of them in the same amount. I leave the rest up to speculation until there's more evidence.

[rabbit]

Azn, have you never heard of the Big Bang theory?  Hush please.

No I haven't, but can you please explain it to me?

No.  I don't really feel like it.
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html

[leet_muffin]

It's rather funny to hear, and can't be proven or disproven, but I've heard a few Christians describe that God created everything to look like Evolution occured, (i.e. dinosaur skeletons in sedimentary rock.) so that we would question God. Then, I asked why God would want us to question God, and they couldn't give a sensible answer. Closest thing I got was "To thin out the amount of people going to 'heaven'"

Seems like if he would want to thin out the people going to 'heaven', he could just up the prereq's. Oh well. I still don't understand why I refer to God as 'he'.

[Rule]

While it's said that he created the world in seven days, were they our days, or were they "God" days, which can be timeless? If that's the case, then evolution may be a way to explain how God created the earth.

If "days" are an unknown measurement, what's the point in talking about 7 of them?  Might as well say 242.94.  It also seems as though we accept that part literally -- "Sunday" being the day of rest.

--
What makes science powerful is its immense predictive capacity.  It is a constantly improving model for making predictions about things in our reality, that works better than anything else, which is why we use it when we're thinking soberly.  While it may be possible to accept a scientific theory (like Darwin's evolution) and some different more mystical theory, I believe most people who do so are practicing "Orwellian" double think; in a crisis or serious situation where the theory needs to come into practical use these people would quickly revert to solely believing in the scientific alternative, because they know, (on a usually supressed level of consciousness) that this is the theory that is more likely to make accurate predictions when put to the test in reality.  However, soon this is usually forgotten and the mystical theory re-takes the place of the scientific theory, so that life can continue comfortably.  Imagine someone who really wants to be like a famous actor.  He looks like the actor, he sounds like the actor, and he's the same age as the actor.  He wants this so badly, he himself believes that he is the actor, and will answer questions as though he's that person.  If anyone asks, he is that person.  Put a gun to his head and ask him and he's back in reality, to what he really is.

Religious engineers don't build rockets with mysticism, they build them using scientific theories.  Religious biologists don't assume intelligent design in their research, they work with Darwin's evolution: they assume what will get results -- what makes them useful in our world.  When they go home, science gets left at work, and the flaky beliefs take charge while the mind takes a rest.

I think most organized religions are inherently evil.