Rational Discussion on 9/11

[Ender]

Before I post my own opinion on 9/11, I'd like to post this to start off.

The goal of a forum is for members to bounce ideas off eachother. It is supposed to be conducive to the free exchange of information. The posts I saw in the "Remembering 9/11" thread violated the principles of forums and alienated others' ideas.

Naturally, we react to the ways that others communicate ideas. And language is all the more important in forums, as the only other form of semiology is faces, and I need not say how limited this form of expression is. (It's interesting that, IIRC, nobody in the "Remembering 9/11" thread used faces.) Effrontery, however, is not the way to communicate ideas. Indeed, it does provoke responses and stimulate discussion, giving us the illusion that we are sparking intelligent debate -- but we are not. We are only making extreme, provocative statements because in an animalistic way it can be satisfying. 

Furthermore, what I read is not only effrontery, but crusading. Ideas are supposed to be elastic collisions, not inelastic. In trying to express our ideas we are trying to force them upon others. Millions have died over the years because of this intent. Whereas lives are not at risk on these forums, friendships and integrity may be.

If you are emotional on a subject and want to express that, you may as well say, "This subject is personal to me. Here's why..." Remember that discussions on a forum are not the same as discussions in your high school classroom. We are from all over the US, and there may even be some of us outside of the US. We spent the years of our childhood in our own culture, taught by parents, teachers, and all other authority a unique set of values. Those in college may have a better idea of cultural acceptance. But for those who aren't, think about it this way: we have a spectrum of religion spanning from agnostics to Joe. Don't you think the range would be just as wide in politics and our view of America?

[Newby]

The previous topic wasn't a discussion on 9/11. It was a topic for remembrance on 9/11. It wasn't supposed to be a "voice your opinion if you found 9/11 to be miniscule" thread.

[Sidoh]

The previous topic wasn't a discussion on 9/11. It was a topic for remembrance on 9/11. It wasn't supposed to be a "voice your opinion if you found 9/11 to be miniscule" thread.

Completely agreed...

[Ender]

Yet it singles out American tragedies as the be-all end-all. Anyways, here's my opinion on 9/11 and America. Note that I did make a new thread for this.

My own view is that there's a 9/11 every day. Africa, for instance, has historically been plagued with death, disease, and destruction ever since white colonialists set foot on the continent. There are children who are tortured every day by hunger, malnutrition, and disease. There are children who die every day and never get to experience the quality of life that we do. There are parents who witness these children die and grieve on how they could never provide for them. Such is life.

I believe that Americans are so affected by 9/11 because, as was mentioned, it happened in America. For some of us, it affected us on a personal level, whether or not we knew someone who died. And then a good proportion of Americans jumped onto the bandwagon. It lashed at our pride and economy, was hyped by the media and government, evoked thoughts of Pearl Harbor, and made a forceful attempt to personalize a tragedy, unlike the monotonous voice of news reporters who report murders and whatnot.

Yet I do not have much pride in my country, so it is not personal to me. In my mind, America is a domestic democracy and an international tyrant. Take, for example, the way we treated Africa in the 1960's and 70's. We dismantled a democracy in the Congo and replaced it with a dictatorship that became Zaire. We tried to do the same in Angola, but fortunately, after a decade of injustices, we failed. And then twenty years later the Senate made an investigation and decided that America was guilty of wrongdoing in Africa. It's great to have hindsight, but it's foresight that prevents mistake, and we are myopic if not blind in that area.

Our country enforces its ideas on others like crusaders. Iraq is like a political jihad. Ironically, we have our own iron curtain of democracy. And even more ironically, we are not a democracy, but a republican politocracy (forgive the neologism). America does not treat others the way it would like to be treated. We condemned the communists for spreading their ideology, yet we impose our own. We impose a Red, White, and Blue scare.   

We claim the separation of Church and State, yet that very phrase paints Christianity as the "right religion."   The aesthetics in its pronunciation is not reason enough to impose this. Religion penetrates our courts as well -- the judges of right and wrong in America keep religious ornamentation and uphold religious recitation in the same room that they make their verdict in.

I think America needs to live up to what it claims to be. We claim to be a nation of equals, why shouldn't we be a world of equals? Because they're uneducated? That's the common excuse. Yet the majority of Americans are uneducated, hence our current administration.

I do view the loss of any life as tragic. But if I were to mourn the loss of every life I would never escape the state of mourning. So you have to choose to mourn the losses that you are personally affected by. And I am more affected by the miserable lives of people in underdeveloped nations than I am by a rare tragedy in such a luxurious nation as the US, which, for reasons I lengthily described, I do not respect.

I respect all of your opinions and only wish to better understand those who are in contention.

[Newby]

Yet it singles out American tragedies as the be-all end-all.

I give it 5 more years before we stop remembering it.

I think the Civil War was much, much worse, but we don't remember it now, do we?

[AntiVirus]

Yet it singles out American tragedies as the be-all end-all.

I give it 5 more years before we stop remembering it.

I doubt it.  I bet it will be like the Titanic in the sense that is discussed and taught about in schools.

But for those who aren't, think about it this way: we have a spectrum of religion spanning from agnostics to Joe.

Lmao!  I don't think Joe is the most extreme, but who knows?! :D

[Blaze]

Yet it singles out American tragedies as the be-all end-all.

I give it 5 more years before we stop remembering it.

I doubt it.  I bet it will be like the Titanic in the sense that is discussed and taught about in schools.

It's different then the Titanic, though; the Titanic was not deliberate.  They were both tragedies, but one was on purpose.

[AntiVirus]

Yet it singles out American tragedies as the be-all end-all.

I give it 5 more years before we stop remembering it.

I doubt it.  I bet it will be like the Titanic in the sense that is discussed and taught about in schools.

It's different then the Titanic, though; the Titanic was not deliberate.  They were both tragedies, but one was on purpose.

Yes, I am aware, but I mean that it will be like the Titanic in the fact that they will probably teach what happened on 9-11 in schools.  That way it will not be forgotten.

[Hitmen]

...post...

I usually don't post in political topics (although I usually read them), but I have to say THANK YOU for someone finally writing a rational, meaningful post with an arguement that doesn't solely rely on disparaging opposing viewpoints. Although I do not entirely agree, that is (IMO) one of the most well written polital posts to ever appear on these forums.