### Author Topic: Another problem!!  (Read 13515 times)

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#### Warrior

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2006, 02:41:23 pm »
Funny you get mad over something on the internet, oh well. There is just no way I'm wrong, my proof is in the word itself. I'm fully aware when you say loop isn't just limited to recursion but the point is that, it includes recursion.

Ugh why am I even continuing this with you, I don't care. If you want to defy a definition to prove that you win then so be it, I'll just get on with my life.

You obsess too much over these things imho.

It doesn't matter where I encounter them, idiots always piss me off.

I'm not defying the definition.  Like I said, you're abstracting the definition of a loop and using the abstracted definition to relate it to recursion.  I'm not saying that recursion isn't looping; however, it isn't a loop when you use the definition of the word "loop" in the context of a programming language.

What the hell are you talking about? A loop is simply reusing the same code over and over... I'm not abstracting the definition that is exactly what infinite recursion is, an infinite loop.

Just out of curiosity, what do you definite infinite recursion as?
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#### Sidoh

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2006, 02:48:18 pm »
What the hell are you talking about? A loop is simply reusing the same code over and over... I'm not abstracting the definition that is exactly what infinite recursion is, an infinite loop.

Yes, that is the abstracted definition of a loop in programming.  The applied meaning of a loop is (as MyndFyre already explained quite plainly):

Code: [Select]
`while(condition) { statement; }`
Code: [Select]
`for(initializer; condition; update) { statement; }`
That is a programming loop.

Just out of curiosity, what do you definite infinite recursion as?

Code: [Select]
`function statement(a) { statement(a++); }`

#### Warrior

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2006, 02:59:21 pm »
What the hell are you talking about? A loop is simply reusing the same code over and over... I'm not abstracting the definition that is exactly what infinite recursion is, an infinite loop.

Yes, that is the abstracted definition of a loop in programming.  The applied meaning of a loop is (as MyndFyre already explained quite plainly):

Code: [Select]
`while(condition) { statement; }`
Code: [Select]
`for(initializer; condition; update) { statement; }`
That is a programming loop.

Just out of curiosity, what do you definite infinite recursion as?

Code: [Select]
`function statement(a) { statement(a++); }`

Those are two different types of loops, you're just limiting what the term loop applies to as it fits your needs.

The bottom line is that infinite recursions are infinite loops are infinite loops are infinite loops.

No way around it, no way to argue against it.

One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling

#### Sidoh

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2006, 03:04:50 pm »
Those are two different types of loops, you're just limiting what the term loop applies to as it fits your needs.

The bottom line is that infinite recursions are infinite loops are infinite loops are infinite loops.

No way around it, no way to argue against it.

First, I think you need to understand the definition of abstract:

Quote
abstract: 1 a : disassociated from any specific instance <an abstract entity>

Next, I'll quote some definitions of recursion, most of which are from your own source.

Quote
Recursion in computer programming is exemplified when a function is defined in terms of itself. One example application of recursion is in parsers for programming languages. The great advantage of recursion is that an infinite set of possible sentences, designs or other data can be defined, parsed or produced by a finite computer program.

Quote
Recursion is the definition of an operation in terms of itself.

Quote
Recursion programming technique in which a program or routine calls itself to perform successive steps in an operation, with each step using the output of the preceding step.

Quote
Nowadays, only the most performance-hungry software, such as video games, missile guidance systems and graphics card drivers, should worry about whether recursion will be slower than iterative for or while loops.

Notice that they refer to recursion and the types of programming loops as separate entities in the last quote.

Do you recognize the difference yet?

#### Warrior

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2006, 03:23:51 pm »
ok your point? Recursion = Looping. Infinite recursion = Infinite looping.

Still, I win.
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling

#### Sidoh

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2006, 03:25:25 pm »
Recursion = Looping.

That's where you're wrong.  Looping is not recursion.  Did you even read those definitions?  You're a programmer, right?

Are you making an effort to ignore everything that's thrown at you or does that come naturally?

#### iago

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2006, 04:04:58 pm »
Ok, let's pretend that you can make an infinite loop without a loop.  Just for a minute.

Now, if you infinitely recurse, you run out of stack space (you get to the top.. or the bottom, depending on how you look at it).  Then your program crashes, since it can't write anything else to the stack.

So where's this corruption you're talking about?

#### Warrior

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2006, 05:42:53 pm »
Ok, let's pretend that you can make an infinite loop without a loop.  Just for a minute.

Now, if you infinitely recurse, you run out of stack space (you get to the top.. or the bottom, depending on how you look at it).  Then your program crashes, since it can't write anything else to the stack.

So where's this corruption you're talking about?

It is obviously corrupted if it's crashed right? I mean..the program wouldn't crash if it wasn't corrupted.
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
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#### iago

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2006, 06:54:45 pm »
Ok, let's pretend that you can make an infinite loop without a loop.  Just for a minute.

Now, if you infinitely recurse, you run out of stack space (you get to the top.. or the bottom, depending on how you look at it).  Then your program crashes, since it can't write anything else to the stack.

So where's this corruption you're talking about?

It is obviously corrupted if it's crashed right? I mean..the program wouldn't crash if it wasn't corrupted.

No.  As I said, it crashes because it's out of stack space, not because it's corrupted.

#### MyndFyre

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2006, 08:20:54 pm »
Warrior, I can't believe nobody has pointed this out.  Recursion is in fact a looping construction.  However, loops are not always recursive.

It's like this:

Set(Programming constructs) = { Loops, Assignments, Expressions, Functions }
Set(Loops) = (Recursive loops, While loops, For loops, Do loops }

Or, if you want to think of it this way:
Code: [Select]
`class Loop : ProgrammingIdea{...}Class Recursion : Loop{...}`You can implicitly cast a Recursion object to a Loop object.  However, you cannot safely cast a Loop object to a Recursion object.
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#### Joe

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2006, 08:02:01 am »
Second of all, infinite looping != infinite recursion.

Quote
Infinite recursion, a special case of an infinite loop, is an infinite loop caused by recursion.

My God, Warrior... Even I know that simply increasing an integer has absolutely nothing to do with the stack! Pushing it, calling a function, and popping it, however, does!
I'd personally do as Joe suggests

You might be right about that, Joe.

#### Warrior

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##### Re: Another problem!!
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2006, 02:37:18 pm »
Second of all, infinite looping != infinite recursion.

Quote
Infinite recursion, a special case of an infinite loop, is an infinite loop caused by recursion.

My God, Warrior... Even I know that simply increasing an integer has absolutely nothing to do with the stack! Pushing it, calling a function, and popping it, however, does!

Joe:
I just saw this today. You have no idea what you're talking about, read it the entire thread tool.
Bottom line: I program better than you.

@Myndfyre: Yea, you're right. I admit defeat.
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling