Kramer loses it! (Black people are involved.)

[Ender]

Life isn't fair. Yet life would be more fair if certain groups were not at an inherent disadvantage.

So these people are naturally disadvantaged?  So since its natural that they can't do as well as "we" can, they've inferior?  Are you saying affirmative action is there so we can feel good about helping out the inferior races?  If so, then I support it because they can't help themselves if they're inferior.
But I don't believe that they are disadvantaged currently.  I believe everyone can make their life better by working hard to better themselves, WITHOUT government "hand ups"

I don't mean they are innately disadvantaged. I mean they grow up disadvantaged. The former is ludicrous.

but life isn't fair!

So then we OBVIOUSLY shouldn't care whether or not they are at a disadvantage, DUH ;)

Yes, we shouldn't strive to make progress in America...

[Sidoh]

This includes (white) kids who are born in the trailer parks, I presume?  Giving people like this some sort of compensation for their disposition sounds a lot like communism to me...

[CrAz3D]

but life isn't fair!

So then we OBVIOUSLY shouldn't care whether or not they are at a disadvantage, DUH ;)

Yes, we shouldn't strive to make progress in America...

but you said life isnt fair...why should I make it less fair by giving someone else an advantage that they dont deserve.


I agree with Sidoh.

Also, being in a disadvantaged situation myself, I don't have specific aid for it.  I don't have the Native American scholarship stuff, I don't currently use federal aid (need based) eventhough I'm sure I qualify.

[Ender]

There's a fine line between communism and integration. Integrating schools was a step in the right direction, although some people deemed it unfair; don't you think that integrating communities would be the same way?

Affirmative action is another way to do this; it is an economic means, and sure, it may sound a bit like communism (although it is clearly a stretch to even make this analogy). I think that affirmative action is good but integrating communities is an even better approach.  The goal is to desegregate America, and affirmative action doesn't help much during compulsory education, before college and jobs.

[Sidoh]

Absolutely not.  I don't think people should receive benefits aside from what they already get (welfare, etc) because they've deemed themselves incapable of getting their lives together.

[CrAz3D]

There's a fine line between communism and integration. Integrating schools was a step in the right direction, although some people deemed it unfair; don't you think that integrating communities would be the same way?

Affirmative action is another way to do this; it is an economic means, and sure, it may sound a bit like communism (although it is clearly a stretch to even make this analogy). I think that affirmative action is good but integrating communities is an even better approach.  The goal is to desegregate America, and affirmative action doesn't help much during compulsory education, before college and jobs.

Integrating the schools levels the playing field and gives everyone an equal education.  Affirmative action gives benefits to one group based not on their merit but on their ethnicity.

[Ender]

I was talking more about socioeconomic desegregation by means of integrating communities. Affirmative action is a separate issue. I was saying affirmative action is one way to desegregate; but the better way is integration.

[Sidoh]

Pedantic grammar police speaking: stop murdering the semicolon. >:(

So what you're proposing is we pull the people out of the ghettos, throw them into the 'burbs and hope they'll thrive?

[CrAz3D]

Pedantic grammar police speaking: stop murdering the semicolon. >:(

So what you're proposing is we pull the people out of the ghettos, throw them into the 'burbs and hope they'll thrive?

Thats what I read.

Maybe you (Ender) should give up your house (assuming it is in a non-ghetto neighborhood) & move into the ghetto so some poor people can have your house & do better in life.  Also, get your parents to trade jobs with the people.  Make sure the ghetto people aren't white though cause they aren't disadvantaged and deserve what they have.

[Ender]

Pedantic grammar police speaking: stop murdering the semicolon. >:(

So what you're proposing is we pull the people out of the ghettos, throw them into the 'burbs and hope they'll thrive?

Taking people out of the ghettos and throwing them into the suburbs is the wrong way to do it; instead (ph33r da semic0l0n) we should deconstruct the notion of a ghetto by improving the living conditions in such places. This will cause an amalgam of people with different ethnic and economic backgrounds to move there and diversify the areas.

[leet_muffin]

But wouldn't we be killing their culture? Isn't that bad? Personally, I fully support killing their culture, but eh.

[deadly7]

we should deconstruct the notion of a ghetto by improving the living conditions in such places. This will cause an amalgam of people with different ethnic and economic backgrounds to move there and diversify the areas.

Rich celebrities (basketball players that experienced those conditions growing up, mostly) have spent millions total in improving certain "ghetto"s in bigger cities like Atlanta.  It hasn't worked.  Do you know why?  The black people it was supposed to be helping did not wish to change.  Black people have been given chances, they're even eating up welfare and what not.  While this is not true for a small minority of them, the majority of them lives in the ghetto, and despite however much they might complain, it's their own fucking fault.  I'm sick of people saying it's white people's faults (even though I'm not white) when it isn't.  Whose fault is it that black people commit crimes?  White people, right?  Of course!  Affirmative action is the way to go.  Let's take college spots from people who might actually DO SOMETHING in life and give them to people that are statistically more likely to drop out and incur debt.  It's their own fucking fault they go around getting high, getting kicked out of school, trying to be all tough and picking fights.  To hell with black people like that.  I also know a couple of black people who are the complete opposite -- they care.  If *they* got picked over white people, it wouldn't bug me one bit -- they work hard, they try, they don't do stupid shit that I hate.  They also don't think they have every right to get something because they're black.

[Sidoh]

Taking people out of the ghettos and throwing them into the suburbs is the wrong way to do it; instead (ph33r da semic0l0n) we should deconstruct the notion of a ghetto by improving the living conditions in such places. This will cause an amalgam of people with different ethnic and economic backgrounds to move there and diversify the areas.

I didn't say you were overusing the semicolon, I meant you were misusing it. ;)

So you're bringing the suburbs to the ghettos?  I can think of more useful causes for tax money...

[dark_drake]

I can think of more useful causes for tax money...

Give it to me!  ;D

[trust]

I love how the black people responded to the racist remarks by calling him a cracker.

Fucking morons.