Get Acquainted with What You Eat

[iago]

You're still killing a fish, so it's not allowed.

I think becoming vegan to be "hardcore" is a pretty lame reason.  Also, while I definitely see the logic behind an argument for vegetarianism and know that it can be practiced in an extremely healthy way, there are substantial drawbacks to being a vegan (you basically can't eat anything anywhere, and yes, it can be unhealthy - some of you may have heard of the "vegan stench"), and I don't see the benefits particularly.  Are the animals really unhappy being milked?  I don't really know, but I have a feeling they might like it as they were designed to produce milk throughout their lives (obviously under different circumstances).  Maybe an unmilked domesticated cow would be unhappy?

But I could be spouting ignorance, so please, inform me if you are able.

Being a proper vegan isn't easy, it takes a lot of commitment and work. In addition to knowing what not to eat (I doubt anybody here knows which colors are animal-based [hint: most colors we eat in food are made from gross stuff, like beetles and worms and such]), you also have to know what TO eat. Like I said, one of my best friends, along with his family, is vegan, and they're all perfectly healthy. Probably more healthy than you or me. But they are extremely knowledgeable about it, which is important.

Animals likely aren't unhappy being milked, but they're probably more unhappy that they're bred and forced to live a life which basically involves eating (eating chemicals and kinds of meat that they can't sell, such as brains [luckily that's been banned, thanks to BE]) and being milked.

[CrAz3D]

You're still killing a fish, so it's not allowed.

Dude, milk from humans is allowed. There is nothing ritualistic about the vegan diet. The reason why animal byproducts aren't allowed is because (A) the animals are penned up in farms (B) these farms drive the food industry (C) animal slaughter most likely goes on at those farms and (D) the conditions for the animals in the farms are poor... among other reasons.

From what it sounds like, eating a fish you fished for in a natural environment should be vegan-friendly.

[Rule]

You're still killing a fish, so it's not allowed.

Dude, milk from humans is allowed. There is nothing ritualistic about the vegan diet. The reason why animal byproducts aren't allowed is because (A) the animals are penned up in farms (B) these farms drive the food industry (C) animal slaughter most likely goes on at those farms and (D) the conditions for the animals in the farms are poor... among other reasons.

From what it sounds like, eating a fish you fished for in a natural environment should be vegan-friendly.

A vegan (one who practices veganism) does not consume or use animal products, notably meat, fish, poultry, eggs and dairy products.

[CrAz3D]

So there's just basically no point behind it, just kind of a "just because I want to" thing?  hmm, ok.

Does consume mean ingest or can it be more liberally interpretted to include general use of things like leather, furs, etc?

[Rule]

So there's just basically no point behind it, just kind of a "just because I want to" thing?  hmm, ok.

Does consume mean ingest or can it be more liberally interpretted to include general use of things like leather, furs, etc?

Read the encylopedia article.

In this context I assume it means ingest, although the "vegan philosophy" is specifically against the use of furs, etc. (Essentially anything that would be construed as cruelty to animals).

[CrAz3D]

a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practical—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

hmm......

SO, basically, they can't eat anything from restaurants, they can't use cars, they can't wear wool, they can't eat some crops (I know some stuff around here is fertilized with animal crap), they can't have pets...wow, this sounds really hard.
Whatever I guess ::)

[ZeroX]

Also, for nutrition, we need meat and the stuff in it.

100% false. Any nutrition you can get in meat, you can also get in the proper vegetables/herb/etc.

Yeah you can, But not a good source of it. ToFu is a substitute for protein but isnt at all filled as would say Red meat/white meat? 

[CrAz3D]

Also, for nutrition, we need meat and the stuff in it.

100% false. Any nutrition you can get in meat, you can also get in the proper vegetables/herb/etc.

Yeah you can, But not a good source of it. ToFu is a substitute for protein but isnt at all filled as would say Red meat/white meat? 

Today's market place allows for everyone to almost not eat real food and still be alive...provided you pop enough of the right pills.

[trust]

Secondly, the Bible says we have no right to condemn someone for not eating or for eating whatever they please. And regardless what we do we're doing it for the Lord. (Romans 14)

Yes, its cool to eat your pet, just not people.  We have rights, I guess.

Hmm...

Technically I suppose it's ok biblically to eat your pet, and my aunt knows people who were really poor and like ate their dogs or something. For Christmas my aunt/uncle/grandparents bought all of the gifts for "Santa" to give to the kids and stuff. This was a long time ago when I was still in elementary school I think, but it's pretty sad. Also eating your pet isn't as taboo in foreign countries. (For example, a Mongolian guy I know told me that when he lived in Mongolia it was regular practice, especially for poorer people, to eat dog) However, people...being the image of the Lord, are off limits to eat. It's just not allowed.

Speaking of PETA, I hate them. I think they have a good cause (better conditions for animals) but the way they do it are just far too extreme. They have their headquarters in my city, it's a multimillion dollar building...very very nice. They destroyed a bunch of marshland to build it though, which is kind of hypocritical imho.

As far as vegans and vegetarians go, to each his own. It's not my place to dictate what you eat...but it isn't their place to try and dictate what I eat, which I find is a trait of people who have such diets. They make it well known to everybody and complain when ever somebody is eating meat or something. They can shut up.

[Rule]

Secondly, the Bible says we have no right to condemn someone for not eating or for eating whatever they please. And regardless what we do we're doing it for the Lord. (Romans 14)

Yes, its cool to eat your pet, just not people.  We have rights, I guess.

Hmm...

Technically I suppose it's ok biblically to eat your pet, and my aunt knows people who were really poor and like ate their dogs or something. For Christmas my aunt/uncle/grandparents bought all of the gifts for "Santa" to give to the kids and stuff. This was a long time ago when I was still in elementary school I think, but it's pretty sad. Also eating your pet isn't as taboo in foreign countries. (For example, a Mongolian guy I know told me that when he lived in Mongolia it was regular practice, especially for poorer people, to eat dog) However, people...being the image of the Lord, are off limits to eat. It's just not allowed.

First of all, that's completely unnecessary and those people are really sick mentally, and obviously so is your family if they sympathize with that.  Secondly, shouldn't we try to be talking logically about this?  I assume some non-Christian, or non-religious people think it's ok to eat animals but not humans.

[MyndFyre]

First of all, that's completely unnecessary and those people are really sick mentally, and obviously so is your family

Seems to be a not particularly logical argument....

[trust]

First of all, that's completely unnecessary and those people are really sick mentally, and obviously so is your family if they sympathize with that. 

I don't know the situation I just know we helped them out, how is that sick? It's not like they sent them a dog to eat, they bought the kids (under 10 iirc) Christmas presents...

And the only reason I referenced the Bible was because it was brought up earlier.

[Rule]

x86/64] link=topic=9386.msg119165#msg119165 date=1179359309]

First of all, that's completely unnecessary and those people are really sick mentally, and obviously so is your family

Seems to be a not particularly logical argument....

Can you elaborate on what you mean?  It's illogical that I think it is unnecessary in North America for the poorest of the poor to feel the need to eat their dogs?  Or it is illogical that I think people who do so unnecessarily are mentally sick?  Or it is illogical that those who sympathise with unnecessary and disturbing actions are likely to be sick themselves?  And who says I'm making an argument.

re: Trust.  No, I would feel sorry for their kids too.  The comment about your family was unnecessary, sorry.  Although if I were (your mom or whoever) I would have called social services.

[iago]

So there's just basically no point behind it, just kind of a "just because I want to" thing?  hmm, ok.

Does consume mean ingest or can it be more liberally interpretted to include general use of things like leather, furs, etc?

No, the point is to avoid needless death of animals. Strictly speaking, they can't injest animals, but, like somebody else said, vegans typically won't use animal products either.

SO, basically, they can't eat anything from restaurants, they can't use cars, they can't wear wool, they can't eat some crops (I know some stuff around here is fertilized with animal crap), they can't have pets...wow, this sounds really hard.
Whatever I guess ::)

Some restaurants cater to vegans. There are a number of them in my city.

Certain kinds of cars are ok. I don't think oil/gas count as animal products. That, I can level with.

You're correct that they don't wear wool.

They generally eat organically grown food. That means no pesticides, and stuff like that.

I'm not sure about pets, I should ask him that one day. But you are probably correct.

Yes, it's hard. And I have a ton of respect for them.

Today's market place allows for everyone to almost not eat real food and still be alive...provided you pop enough of the right pills.

Again, vegans go for natural. That is, avoiding chemicals. You can get the proper nutrients from the proper plants and herbs, as long as you know what you're doing.

[CrAz3D]

x86/64] link=topic=9386.msg119165#msg119165 date=1179359309]

First of all, that's completely unnecessary and those people are really sick mentally, and obviously so is your family

Seems to be a not particularly logical argument....

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

It is only your opinion that it is wrong to eat a pet.  Many people do it all over the place.
My mom's rabbit had babies (when she was a kid) and my grand dad cooked 'em up on the grill, so I hear.  In Asia they eat dogs.
That's their deal, it seems odd, but whatever.



iago,
Needless death of animals...?  So if they were out in the wild and starving they WOULD hunt/fish?
By supporting companies that hire people that likely eat animals, aren't they enabling animal ingestion?
Also, oil is a product from organics, likely including animals...strict veganism, it seems, would oppose oil consumption.