Someone got into truck, rummaged around and took iPod

[iago]

Following huh?  Lik,e you follow 40 year old virgins around?  Sounds like you have TONS of fun.  (get it, TONS?!)

Too late to pretend you were just joking around to save yourself.

Nice try, though!

[CrAz3D]

Really?  Joking?  You thought I was joking?  That's funny.

[iago]

Either you're joking, or you have serious mental problems (as in, you can't understand the word "following").

[Explicit]

Alright, I can empathize with CrAzEd being angry and upset, however despite this, it really is your own fault for getting it stolen. You shouldn't have left your window open and/or left the ipod in your vehicle. At least in plain sight. I know some of my friends will put it/lock it in their side compartment/dashboard.

It's not my fault some cunt stole it.
I just made it easier by trusting douche-fuckers

You left it somewhere stupid, so yes, it IS your fault that somebody stole it.

(It's like the time I forgot my iPod in a washroom stall when I was changing. Naturally, when I returned to look for it, it was gone. I left it somewhere stupid, somebody stole it. I blamed myself.)

That's like saying it's a woman's fault for being raped. She was cute and got raped, her fault

That analogy actually makes sense, lol

Not at all really.

CrAz3D, get over yourself. Like I said, you're playing the victim and just refuse to own up to your own mistake.

'Nuff said.

[Rule]

CrAz3D is being a jerk in this thread, and I don't think he is a very thoughtful person, but he is somewhat right in the sense that this is not completely his fault.  If you were to leave your car doors unlocked, with the key in the ignition, and someone stole your car, and was caught, he would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law.  These measures we take to protect ourselves would be mostly useless if no-one were.out there consciously doing the wrong thing.

On the other hand, you could say "if I hadn't made it so easy for my car to be stolen, it likely wouldn't have been".  So in that sense, you are partly responsible.  But should you still lock the car?  CrAz3Ds analogy about getting raped applies in this situation.  Should a pretty girl really make herself ugly in order to avoid being raped?  Of course everyone instinctively wants to say "no", but following the same line of reasoning we applied to the car situation, the answer could well be "yes".  Like most choices, this is another optimization problem.  Is the decreased chance of being raped worth sacrificing your appearance?  Probably not.  Is the decreased chance of having your car stolen worth the extra effort of making sure it is locked? Most likely.

[iago]

If you were to leave your car doors unlocked, with the key in the ignition, and someone stole your car, and was caught, he would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law.  These measures we take to protect ourselves would be mostly useless if no-one were.out there consciously doing the wrong thing.

I agree that somebody still did something wrong and they should be held accountable for it, if they're caught. But making it easy (or possible) for somebody to do that wrong thing isn't a good choice to make.

On the other hand, you could say "if I hadn't made it so easy for my car to be stolen, it likely wouldn't have been".  So in that sense, you are partly responsible.  But should you still lock the car?  CrAz3Ds analogy about getting raped applies in this situation.  Should a pretty girl really make herself ugly in order to avoid being raped?  Of course everyone instinctively wants to say "no", but following the same line of reasoning we applied to the car situation, the answer could well be "yes".  Like most choices, this is another optimization problem.  Is the decreased chance of being raped worth sacrificing your appearance?  Probably not.  Is the decreased chance of having your car stolen worth the extra effort of making sure it is locked? Most likely.

I think it's most definitely an optimization problem, and I was working towards that argument by presenting situations where it's obviously a person's fault (like closing their eyes and crossing the road). I asked if CrAz3d was following my line of reasoning, but that didn't go well...

I think in some situations, it's an easy optimization. Look both ways before you cross the street, don't leave your vehicle running when you're away from it for a long time, etc. But there's more middle ground, like locking up your bike when running into a store, even quickly, taking your laptop with you when leaving a car, things like that. I personally do all those because I'm paranoid and don't want to feel like a tool afterwards. And I think at the other end of the spectrum, is dressing differently so you don't get raped, not taking the bus, stuff like that.

It's sort of an interesting problem, and one I'm faced with pretty much every day in my job -- where do you draw the line between convenience and security?

[CrAz3D]

Let's break down your "person in the street" scenario and compare it to a theft (of any sort).

Theft:
Person A steals from Person B when B was away, thus creating a convenient scenario for A.  Obviously, B is wronged and A is the wrong-doer.  B had no intention of the theft and did not predict its occurrence.

Car:
Person A steps in the direct and immediate path of Person B's car.  For the sake of the argument, B had NO chance to react.  A had EVERY intention of the damage and could foresee its occurrence.

Rape:
Person A looks really attractive.  Person B takes advantage of Person A because the opportunity presented itself.  Obviously, B is wrong and A is the wrong-doer.  B had no intention of the rape and did not predict the occurrence.



Can you follow that?  In the car scenario the victim is Person B, the one driving the car.  A is the de facto the wrong-doer.

[Armin]

CrAz3D, your logic is horrible.

[Quik]

First of all, not necessarily a homeless person.

Secondly, it's just smart not to let the opportunity present itself. Alot of times, stereo equipment can't be removed every time the car is parked. I know for damn sure I don't want to carry and amp and sub around the mall with me just so I don't leave it in the parking lot.

Get an alarm. Lock your doors. Be careful where you park. Be careful where you blast your music. Turn down your music/hide your ipod a block or two or 12 before you reach your destination. Don't get followed around.

You can complete college as a raging alcoholic and use connections to get you great places in life.. but you need to fuck around on the streets before you gain some useful street knowledge that'll keep you safe.

Not meant to be a personal attack, just helpful insight. Think about it.

[CrAz3D]

CrAz3D, your logic is horrible.

Splain yourself lucy.

First of all, not necessarily a homeless person.

Secondly, it's just smart not to let the opportunity present itself. Alot of times, stereo equipment can't be removed every time the car is parked. I know for damn sure I don't want to carry and amp and sub around the mall with me just so I don't leave it in the parking lot.

Get an alarm. Lock your doors. Be careful where you park. Be careful where you blast your music. Turn down your music/hide your ipod a block or two or 12 before you reach your destination. Don't get followed around.

You can complete college as a raging alcoholic and use connections to get you great places in life.. but you need to fuck around on the streets before you gain some useful street knowledge that'll keep you safe.

Not meant to be a personal attack, just helpful insight. Think about it.

I grew up small-town, things are changing here ... I gotta get used to it.

Also, 99% sure it's a homeless dude.  When I got to the office this mornin' some fucker had torn down the for rent sign on the side of the buildin.  (huge sign, 12'x8').

[Camel]

CrAz3D is being a jerk in this thread, and I don't think he is a very thoughtful person, but he is somewhat right in the sense that this is not completely his fault.  If you were to leave your car doors unlocked, with the key in the ignition, and someone stole your car, and was caught, he would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law.  These measures we take to protect ourselves would be mostly useless if no-one were.out there consciously doing the wrong thing.

On the other hand, you could say "if I hadn't made it so easy for my car to be stolen, it likely wouldn't have been".  So in that sense, you are partly responsible.  But should you still lock the car?  CrAz3Ds analogy about getting raped applies in this situation.  Should a pretty girl really make herself ugly in order to avoid being raped?  Of course everyone instinctively wants to say "no", but following the same line of reasoning we applied to the car situation, the answer could well be "yes".  Like most choices, this is another optimization problem.  Is the decreased chance of being raped worth sacrificing your appearance?  Probably not.  Is the decreased chance of having your car stolen worth the extra effort of making sure it is locked? Most likely.

Breaking and entering and theft are independent crimes. If you leave your keys in an unlocked car and it's stolen, your insurance company won't cover it. It's your responsibility to secure your belongings.

It sucks that the iPod was stolen, but that doesn't make it any less CrAz3D's fault.

[Rule]

CrAz3D is being a jerk in this thread, and I don't think he is a very thoughtful person, but he is somewhat right in the sense that this is not completely his fault.  If you were to leave your car doors unlocked, with the key in the ignition, and someone stole your car, and was caught, he would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law.  These measures we take to protect ourselves would be mostly useless if no-one were.out there consciously doing the wrong thing.

On the other hand, you could say "if I hadn't made it so easy for my car to be stolen, it likely wouldn't have been".  So in that sense, you are partly responsible.  But should you still lock the car?  CrAz3Ds analogy about getting raped applies in this situation.  Should a pretty girl really make herself ugly in order to avoid being raped?  Of course everyone instinctively wants to say "no", but following the same line of reasoning we applied to the car situation, the answer could well be "yes".  Like most choices, this is another optimization problem.  Is the decreased chance of being raped worth sacrificing your appearance?  Probably not.  Is the decreased chance of having your car stolen worth the extra effort of making sure it is locked? Most likely.

Breaking and entering and theft are independent crimes. If you leave your keys in an unlocked car and it's stolen, your insurance company won't cover it. It's your responsibility to secure your belongings.

It sucks that the iPod was stolen, but that doesn't make it any less CrAz3D's fault.

he[the robber] would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law.

Also, there is nuance in my post you obviously didn't understand.

[CrAz3D]

CrAz3D is being a jerk in this thread, and I don't think he is a very thoughtful person, but he is somewhat right in the sense that this is not completely his fault.  If you were to leave your car doors unlocked, with the key in the ignition, and someone stole your car, and was caught, he would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law.  These measures we take to protect ourselves would be mostly useless if no-one were.out there consciously doing the wrong thing.

On the other hand, you could say "if I hadn't made it so easy for my car to be stolen, it likely wouldn't have been".  So in that sense, you are partly responsible.  But should you still lock the car?  CrAz3Ds analogy about getting raped applies in this situation.  Should a pretty girl really make herself ugly in order to avoid being raped?  Of course everyone instinctively wants to say "no", but following the same line of reasoning we applied to the car situation, the answer could well be "yes".  Like most choices, this is another optimization problem.  Is the decreased chance of being raped worth sacrificing your appearance?  Probably not.  Is the decreased chance of having your car stolen worth the extra effort of making sure it is locked? Most likely.

Breaking and entering and theft are independent crimes. If you leave your keys in an unlocked car and it's stolen, your insurance company won't cover it. It's your responsibility to secure your belongings.

It sucks that the iPod was stolen, but that doesn't make it any less CrAz3D's fault.

See the rape comparison.  Crime of convenience/the woman's fault.

[Explicit]

CrAz3D is being a jerk in this thread, and I don't think he is a very thoughtful person, but he is somewhat right in the sense that this is not completely his fault. If you were to leave your car doors unlocked, with the key in the ignition, and someone stole your car, and was caught, he would held totally responsible in the eyes of the law. These measures we take to protect ourselves would be mostly useless if no-one were.out there consciously doing the wrong thing.

On the other hand, you could say "if I hadn't made it so easy for my car to be stolen, it likely wouldn't have been". So in that sense, you are partly responsible. But should you still lock the car? CrAz3Ds analogy about getting raped applies in this situation. Should a pretty girl really make herself ugly in order to avoid being raped? Of course everyone instinctively wants to say "no", but following the same line of reasoning we applied to the car situation, the answer could well be "yes". Like most choices, this is another optimization problem. Is the decreased chance of being raped worth sacrificing your appearance? Probably not. Is the decreased chance of having your car stolen worth the extra effort of making sure it is locked? Most likely.

Breaking and entering and theft are independent crimes. If you leave your keys in an unlocked car and it's stolen, your insurance company won't cover it. It's your responsibility to secure your belongings.

It sucks that the iPod was stolen, but that doesn't make it any less CrAz3D's fault.

See the rape comparison. Crime of convenience/the woman's fault.

I still don't see how rape is relevant at all. If a woman were to dress provocatively and put her goodies on display, and then gets raped, then you could use that as your arguing point since she's practically asking for it. A woman dresses conservatively and gets raped? Not her fault.

Your truck got broken into because you left your goodies (iPod) in plain sight. It's your fault. Had you concealed your goodies, your truck probably wouldn't have been broken into.

Quit trying to justify yourself with irrelevant points.

[deadly7]

I still don't see how rape is relevant at all. If a woman were to dress provocatively and put her goodies on display, and then gets raped, then you could use that as your arguing point since she's practically asking for it.

Right, because going "Hey look, i have a nice body and i don't care about keeping it conservative!" totally translates to "OMG LOOK AT MY BOOBIES, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE, PLEASE GET ME NAKED AND TAKE ME HARD."