I am sorry. However I was not attempting an argument from design, rather suggesting that contrary to what you know both my personal experience and the Bible of which has authority in my life says you are wrong. If God has not been willing to reveal Himself to you in the tangible manner that you require then I sure am not going to sit here and prove Him for you. Maybe you will be unsatisfied with this but I am just the carrier of a message. The rest is between you and God. My relationship with God and the evidence He has given me is more than sufficient for a continued walk. You see I am not trying to convince men with cleverly crafted ideas and human wisdom, I am trying to create a context in which one might encounter the living God. If that encounter should prove not to take place then I am going to move on and trust God in His wisdom to remain hidden.
When you said "God can be seen in his creations", you weren't meaning to suggest that it appears that the world is designed, and therefore God exists? Please excuse that misinterpretation if that wasn't the case. This is practically a knee-jerk response I see from creationists whenever I have these kinds of discussions.
I appreciate your response here. While I'm rather convinced God isn't going to do anything to do something to convince me he exists (probably because he doesn't exist), I appreciate that you recognize you don't have any objective, non-personal reason to believe in God (else, you'd tell me, right?
.
I'm not sure if you were just quoting a bible verse verbatim here, but these are the kinds of accusations that really grind my gears. I don't worship anyone's ideas. I don't, in fact, worship anyone in the place of God. I don't "choose" to not believe in God. I am a type of person who naturally cannot believe in something that has no evidence. It may have taken me 17 years to realize that there is no evidence for the existence of God, but when I finally did, my faith rapidly faded.
Please take a moment to grease your gears because you completely pulled an accusation out of what I said that was not there... I said individuals who would rather worship there own ideas... To further clarify my meaning, I see my main mode of worshiping God as seeking to know His ways and then walking in them as opposed to walking according to my own ways. Hence the worshiping of ones own ideas as opposed to the worship of God.
I apologize. I thought you were criticizing atheists for worshiping their own ideas instead of God.
Evidence comes as a God given reward for faith. I am fine with your choosing to reject that. You don't choose not to believe...whatever. If that is your philosophy in life you can have it.
That's not how it works. Even if this were true,
it doesn't matter. I cannot fulfill the prerequisites for faith. This is just how I am.
Where and in what way did I suggest you or anyone else is silly? Am I not allowed the same confidence as you demonstrate in the flaunting of your beliefs or would it be better for me to look at my feet and stutter? A martyr? Better yet a living martyr? All it took was a poem...so what exactly is your point?
No, I don't think you're allowed the same confidence. The only thing I'm confident about in this context is
I don't know. I don't know how or if the Universe began. I don't know if God does or does not exist, and I posit that you don't either.
If you are going to continue in the trampling of my garden spend a little more time trying to understand what it is I am saying and a little less time puking all over the place.
I'll admit that I'm being abrasive, and that I've made a few mistakes in interpreting what you say, but I'm unconvinced that this is entirely my fault (though it's probably mostly my fault
.
An attack on non-believers...where do you get this stuff? You lashed out at me for a poem which suggested the personal experience of a believer in the Holy Spirit in the trials of life. I in fact see all you have presented as nothing more than a circular argument. I have done nothing but poetically express a personal experience which is backed by the Bible and Spirit in which I draw inspiration.
You're taking the word "attack" to mean something more er... violent than I meant it to.
Er... I've given a circular argument? Point it out.
An attack on myself? More and more you demonstrate lack of understanding in the faith I profess. I am not sure what your 18 indoctrinated years accomplished but I truly hope that the years you have left are much more fruitful in your natural path.
What my 18 indoctrinated years accomplished? Natural path?
After sifting through the logorrhea before me I have found two things worth noting: an assertion that God can not be proven as to exist based upon a criteria which rejects the context in which God has chosen to reveal Himself, and a finely tuned inability to communicate.
Speaking of logorrhea...
It's not as if I handpicked my standard of evidence such that it necessitates a disbelief in God. This seems to be what you're suggesting -- that's not it at all. It's a doctrine of skepticism: if there isn't a good, tangible reason to believe in something, don't believe it.
It's the same doctrine you use to reject pixies, unicorns and big foot.
I understand that you've had a personal experience with God. How do you know it was the Christian God? How do you know that if you professed your allegiance to Allah, you wouldn't have a similar revelation?
