They're examples of things I find absolutely disgusting, and I think it's more a product of my genetics than my upbringing, especially considering the rest of my family likes both sea food and eggs.
Pfft. I proved that you're 2/3 vegan. Win!
(Fine, 2/4 vegan if you count onions)
I find it annoying that you mention this. It's like you're saying
(1) Crazed made an argument similar to this
(2) Crazed is generally incapable of forming sound arguments
Therefore, (3) Your argument sucks.
Which is really stupid, and it's a sly way of attempting discrediting what I say. I don't appreciate it.
I didn't really mean to imply that, it was more of a bonus.
But really, that's an argument I had with craz3d over and over -- society saying something is good or bad doesn't make something intrinsically good or bad. It's very similar to the arguments you presented.
So to conclude.... NO U!
The decision I'm trying to "justify" includes moral considerations, sure, but that doesn't mean that it necessarily only includes moral considerations. This is exactly what I was pointing out.
Then that's a point we disagree on. I look beyond reasons that I consider selfish, and really just consider the justification of killing for pleasure/convenience/etc.
I suppose I was putting words in your mouth there, sorry about that.
Regardless, your "counter" doesn't do anything for me, because you're not me. I don't want to deal with arranging my life around what I eat. That sounds terrible.
That's sort of a hard thing for me to answer. In general, I don't arrange my life around what I eat. At least, not in any way I'd consider negative. I mean, when it's up to me, I choose restaurants/groceries/etc based on what I eat, and that can probably be considered a rearrangement, but it's not like it's extra work or effort. And I like that food, too.
This does mean that I end up eating shitty meals once in awhile. Like, for my dad's birthday he wanted to go to a steakhouse. So fine, I went and had a salad and baked potato. It sucked, yeah, but I'm ok with sacrificing some pleasure once in awhile rather than wanting something to lose its life for my desires.
By non-insignificant, you mean significant. I don't care if the effort is reduced over time. I still wasted my life reading the ingredients on food. Yuck. No thanks.
I wouldn't call it "significant".
Either way, when I started reading ingredients, I also started realizing how much chemicals/artificial crap is in the food I was eating. So besides avoiding animal products, I started avoiding other unnatural foods, especially ones whose first ingredients are sugar/oil.
I really learned a lot about food, and it's a great exercise for everybody.
No, that wasn't my argument. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that a person who eats meat and puts less work into their diet than a vegan (but still more than the average person) can be just as healthy as a vegan.
Then I misunderstood what you said. You seemed to imply that vegan was a less healthy diet.
For what it's worth, health isn't my primary reason for being vegan.
I suppose this is fair, but considering I have tried a few, and I've found most of them completely disgusting, I think I'm reasonably qualified to say I wouldn't like that many vegan dishes.
Did I mention I hate onions too?
Damnit, all vegan food is made of onions and mushrooms!
Actually, I think you're crazy. Green onions AND yellow onions? Or just the yellow ones? Because green onions are the best.
While I haven't read vegan blogs (and sorry, I don't plan to), I have given quite a bit of consideration to their views. I've decided (again and again) that I just don't care enough to change my lifestyle.
The thing is, you get a significantly more negative view of the meat industry (and such) if you're reading those blogs. Most people even don't realize all the horrible things that happen in farming (even when I became vegan, I actually hadn't done much research on modern farming.. now that I have, I'm even more glad
).
Maybe this is party because of my security background, but I believe that people should know exactly how secure their software/locks/etc are. In the same sense, people should know exactly where their food comes from, how it lived, and how it was killed. Factory farms are horrible places where there's all kinds of abuse and such, and apparently up to 99% of our meat comes from them (from that article in my first post
).
This kinda goes back to deadly's original question, though -- how do I feel about showing shock images to people?
And my answer is the same: most people refuse to believe (or think about) this kind of thing (I called it 'denial'), so it doesn't help. At least reading the blogs, you have the opportunity to research and such (I don't believe anything I read right away, I always find multiple sources).
You're not getting it
I'm saying that your analogy doesn't even work. "It feels good" is a reason to rape. I'm not saying it's anywhere near sufficient, but regardless, it is a reason.
I still think that analogy works, then. I view eating meat (and stuff) the same way -- perhaps it's a reason, it's just not nearly sufficient. We seem to agree on the meaning of the analogy, just not the text (I say it isn't a reason, you say it's a crappy reason.. whatever
).
"You can't criticize veganism until you try it!"
Ugh, that's so silly. Of course I can. If you really believe that, though, maybe I should get my girlfriend to post here. She tried veganism for a month to prove a point, and she hated it.
There's a big difference between doing something to prove a point, and doing something because you want to.
I compare it to quitting smoking or becoming (religious/non-religious) -- if it's something you're doing to prove a point, or because somebody told you to, or because you saw it on tv, it's not going to work out. You're going to hate every minute of it, and fall off the wagon (so to speak) as soon as you can.
The right way to approach veganism, in my mind, is to have fun with it. Before I was vegan, I bought a cookbook that had a really good introduction (the 'what you need to know' stuff), read some blogs that post recipes, and tried various things. As I gave up meat and stuff, I had more fun with it -- I tried new things, and tried things I remembered hating when I was a kid. Because it was something I really wanted to experience, I enjoyed it a lot.
It's like going into a movie. If you have pre-conceptions about the movie being bad, you're probably going to think it's bad no matter what. If you approach it with an open mind, or even with a positive mind, you'll get a lot more out of the movie. I think veganism (and a lot of other things) are the same way.
Also, your girlfriend was obsessed with sprinkles. How can you trust anything she says!? (Just kidding -- I think the sprinkles thing was my fault
).