Is pretty hot. Am I right?
Quote from: ZeroX on August 29, 2007, 01:11:06 PM
Is pretty hot. Am I right?
she is also fucking the dumbest piece of shit alive. but you are right shes fuckable and so is miss south Carolina
yes.
I also think the media makes her out to be less intelligent than she really is. After all, she was educated at some of the top schools in the country.
Quote from: Trust on August 29, 2007, 02:49:32 PM
yes.
I also think the media makes her out to be less intelligent than she really is. After all, she was educated at some of the top schools in the country.
So did George Bush (and yes, I'm saying he isn't intelligent). Attending a good school doesn't say much about intelligence, especially when the person in question comes from an extremely wealthy family.
Quote from: Sidoh on August 29, 2007, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: Trust on August 29, 2007, 02:49:32 PM
yes.
I also think the media makes her out to be less intelligent than she really is. After all, she was educated at some of the top schools in the country.
So did George Bush (and yes, I'm saying he isn't intelligent). Attending a good school doesn't say much about intelligence, especially when the person in question comes from an extremely wealthy family.
Yeah, I completely agree. Getting educated at the best schools doesn't mean you're smart, it means you're rich. There's no way I could have afforded to go to a prestigious school (my family isn't poor, but we're by no means rich), but I went to the local university, got what I consider to be a good education, and here I am.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't as dumb as she seems. But I don't think it's totally the media that portrays her like that, I think she does it to herself. I guess you could say that it's her schtick. :)
Quote from: iago on August 29, 2007, 03:34:56 PM
Getting educated at the best schools doesn't mean you're smart, it means you're rich.
That might be true for the undergraduate program at any college, but I don't know anyone in a masters program that doesn't deserve to be there. The cost difference is virtually non existent. If you can get in, you can get a GTA position that covers your tuition and pays you more than enough to cover the rest of your expenses.
Disclaimer: All of my friends in grad school are Engineers, Mathematicians, or Med students :) All of them went to 'less prestigious' schools for their undergraduate degree. Some had scholarships, some did not. There is a lot to be said for being a Big Fish in a Little Pond in my opinion.
Quote from: iago on August 29, 2007, 03:34:56 PM
Yeah, I completely agree. Getting educated at the best schools doesn't mean you're smart, it means you're rich. There's no way I could have afforded to go to a prestigious school (my family isn't poor, but we're by no means rich), but I went to the local university, got what I consider to be a good education, and here I am.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't as dumb as she seems. But I don't think it's totally the media that portrays her like that, I think she does it to herself. I guess you could say that it's her schtick. :)
I completely disagree with you and Sidoh (moreso Sidoh since he mentioned George Bush.) Anyway regardless of the amount of money she has, that doesn't mean she didn't actually attend or do her schoolwork. It doesn't matter if you're paying, you're not exempted from the work.
Quote from: Trust on August 29, 2007, 11:26:53 PM
I completely disagree with you and Sidoh (moreso Sidoh since he mentioned George Bush.) Anyway regardless of the amount of money she has, that doesn't mean she didn't actually attend or do her schoolwork. It doesn't matter if you're paying, you're not exempted from the work.
Hahaha, you amuse me, Trust. :P
You've failed to understand my point.
Attending a prestigious university does not necessarily mean the person attending it is intelligent. It is therefore a logical fallacy to assume anything about anyone's intelligence based purely on which university they attended. Academic achievement (like George Bush's C average) says much more about intelligence, but we haven't been discussing that.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I'm pretty sure what you've just presented is a strawman argument. :P
Quote from: Sidoh on August 29, 2007, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: Trust on August 29, 2007, 02:49:32 PM
yes.
I also think the media makes her out to be less intelligent than she really is. After all, she was educated at some of the top schools in the country.
So did George Bush (and yes, I'm saying he isn't intelligent). Attending a good school doesn't say much about intelligence, especially when the person in question comes from an extremely wealthy family.
I'm glad we didn't elect John Kerry then
Quote from: Sidoh on August 29, 2007, 11:52:28 PM
Quote from: Trust on August 29, 2007, 11:26:53 PM
I completely disagree with you and Sidoh (moreso Sidoh since he mentioned George Bush.) Anyway regardless of the amount of money she has, that doesn't mean she didn't actually attend or do her schoolwork. It doesn't matter if you're paying, you're not exempted from the work.
Hahaha, you amuse me, Trust. :P
You've failed to understand my point. Attending a prestigious university does not necessarily mean the person attending it is intelligent. It is therefore a logical fallacy to assume anything about anyone's intelligence based purely on which university they attended. Academic achievement (like George Bush's C average) says much more about intelligence, but we haven't been discussing that.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I'm pretty sure what you've just presented is a strawman argument. :P
I'd rather have a C average from Yale and Harvard than an A average from, say, Norfolk State University.
The point I'm getting at is pretty obvious, while attending prestigious prepatory schools Paris Hilton had to have absorbed some of the knowledge because even if she paid, say, 20x the amount of tuition just to go there (she didn't, but still) she still would have had to attend classes and, by the very nature of classes, learn something.
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 11:49:13 AM
I'd rather have a C average from Yale and Harvard than an A average from, say, Norfolk State University.
If I was in charge of hiring, I probably wouldn't consider the person with a low GPA no matter where he went, and vice versa. Of course, a good B is probably better than an A for reasons I've stated here before that people don't agree with, but that's a whole different situation. :)
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 11:49:13 AM
The point I'm getting at is pretty obvious, while attending prestigious prepatory schools Paris Hilton had to have absorbed some of the knowledge because even if she paid, say, 20x the amount of tuition just to go there (she didn't, but still) she still would have had to attend classes and, by the very nature of classes, learn something.
The same would go no matter which school she went to, by the very nature of classes. Why's it matter that she went to expensive ones?
When you're going to a highschool that is more expensive than most colleges you expect to receive a top notch education. If the students don't receive said education then nobody would send their children there and then the school would close and wouldn't make any money.
For example: I go to the most expensive college in Virginia, and when parents pay such a large sum of money to send their kid to be educated they expect them to receive the best education money can buy. Why else would someone pay $37,000/year if they could receive equal education and opportunities for $3,000? In addition to top notch professors, I also have at my disposal many other benefits that students at other schools don't have which make it worth the money. (While this may be the most expensive college in VA, it's also rated as one of the top value colleges in the nation due to what they offer)
It's a sad unfairness, but you're paying for both prestige and education - both of which are valuable assets in life.
Note: This isn't to say that what I'm writing is the gospel or anything, as large inexpensive state schools constantly output very brilliant individuals who go on to do great things and make tons of bank - but what I said is the theory behind pricier education.
We actually have a seminar coming up on campus soon about whether or not public education should be abolished. I don't think it should be, but I think I might go check it out to see the arguments.
I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.
Quote from: iago on August 30, 2007, 01:00:55 PM
I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.
When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.
Obviously it does in certain circles, but other people think you're just a "hoity toity Harvard kid who thinks he's better than me just cuz he has more edumacation!"
Ok, maybe it's not that bad, but I'm quite sure that they get resentment from a lot of people.
Your last few posts have been tangential to the argument at hand, Trust.
If she weren't so incompetent, her "academic" record would certainly help her get a job. Schools famous for having good programs in certain areas definitely help their students get jobs; that's painfully obvious. However, that does not mean that people who attend (or even graduate from) a prestigious university are intelligent. That's what I was saying. I wasn't saying any more or any less.
You also should realize that intelligence is a natural trait; it is not something that can be gained or lost through normal experiences like attending classes. A person can certainly become more knowledgeable, perceptive or cultured from things like this, but it will not affect their intelligence -- their natural ability to not only absorb information, but to comprehend entire concepts.
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: iago on August 30, 2007, 01:00:55 PM
I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.
When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.
You place too much value on prestige and title. A piece of paper can say anything, but a person speaks for his or her self.
And Sidoh, I agree; intelligence is a natural trait.
Quote from: Explicit[nK] on August 30, 2007, 05:49:32 PM
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: iago on August 30, 2007, 01:00:55 PM
I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.
When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.
You place too much value on prestige and title. A piece of paper can say anything, but a person speaks for his or her self.
And Sidoh, I agree; intelligence is a natural trait.
It's not just me who places value on prestige and title, it's society in general. If you go up to two men (one with a PhD, and one without) and ask them a question, and each give you a separate answer who are you going to believe? Most people would believe the one with the PhD, simply because he has a PhD. Now compare somebody with a PhD from Harvard and someone with a PhD from some small university in the middle of Idaho. For sake of argument people here may say that they'd go with who has a better tract record in their field, or say the guy at the small university got a better education due to class size and not being a hoity toity Harvard man...but the general American public will go with the Ivy-educated gentlemen over the latter.
Just a note: Microsoft pulls all of its executives from the Ivy League graduates. =P
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 06:43:35 PM
It's not just me who places value on prestige and title, it's society in general. If you go up to two men (one with a PhD, and one without) and ask them a question, and each give you a separate answer who are you going to believe? Most people would believe the one with the PhD, simply because he has a PhD. Now compare somebody with a PhD from Harvard and someone with a PhD from some small university in the middle of Idaho. For sake of argument people here may say that they'd go with who has a better tract record in their field, or say the guy at the small university got a better education due to class size and not being a hoity toity Harvard man...but the general American public will go with the Ivy-educated gentlemen over the latter.
Again, tangential (not that I care. I just want to make sure we're clear :P).
I think that you're underplaying the significance of a PhD ("simply because he has a PhD"). Having a PhD degree shows that you understand the material encompassed in the subject. Up until then, you could usually get by with memorizing procedures and facts that lead you to the right answer without understanding the underlying concepts.
While assuming an answer from a PhD is correct over an answer from a person with a lesser degree is definitely fallacious, one can normally assume that, at least at one time, the person with the PhD had an intimate understanding of the concepts involved with the subject the degree is in.
You can continue to spout anecdotal conclusions about how important the prestige of a school is, but, personally, I'm not so sure. While I do agree that it has noticeable impact when applying to jobs, graduate schools, etc, I think that there are more important issues to concern oneself with (such as succeeding/excelling in your current studies, participating in research opportunities, etc).
I know the requirements and qualifications of those with a PhD, the point I was making was that it's not only me who places so much emphasis on title. Surely there are individuals with a better understanding of material that lack a PhD over those who hold one.
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 09:23:46 PM
I know the requirements and qualifications of those with a PhD, the point I was making was that it's not only me who places so much emphasis on title. Surely there are individuals with a better understanding of material that lack a PhD over those who hold one.
Yes, but someone having a PhD is a much better indication of their intelligence than which university they attended as an undergraduate, which is why I don't think your analogy works.
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Explicit[nK] on August 30, 2007, 05:49:32 PM
Quote from: Trust on August 30, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: iago on August 30, 2007, 01:00:55 PM
I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.
When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.
You place too much value on prestige and title. A piece of paper can say anything, but a person speaks for his or her self.
And Sidoh, I agree; intelligence is a natural trait.
It's not just me who places value on prestige and title, it's society in general. If you go up to two men (one with a PhD, and one without) and ask them a question, and each give you a separate answer who are you going to believe? Most people would believe the one with the PhD, simply because he has a PhD. Now compare somebody with a PhD from Harvard and someone with a PhD from some small university in the middle of Idaho. For sake of argument people here may say that they'd go with who has a better tract record in their field, or say the guy at the small university got a better education due to class size and not being a hoity toity Harvard man...but the general American public will go with the Ivy-educated gentlemen over the latter.
I'm simply saying that prestige isn't everything. Personally, I'd be more interested in someone who's had to struggle to get to where they are, and I mean
struggle and not having nearly everything paid for.
Wtf? Why is this in my forum? To answer the question, yes, you are right. She is pretty hot.
You know, I just realized the topic was spelled wrong.
Quote from: Newby on August 31, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
You know, I just realized the topic was spelled wrong.
Haha. I didn't notice. Yay for Pa
irs Hilton!
Trust, UVA is way more highly regarded as a quality university than Hampden Sydney, so your argument of cost is questionable. Not to mention, Cambridge and Oxford are internationally the most highly regarded universities in the world, and to anyone in the European Union, the tuition at either amounts to about $3000/year. I could go on with other examples: Berkeley, McGill, etc.
And getting into a prestigious university is not good evidence of intelligence. Half of your argument has been that people perceive those who go to prestigious universities as more intelligent or successful, but that is completely different than your original claim - "Paris Hilton goes to a good school and therefore she is smart"; you're just arguing that your opinion is aligned with majority opinion.
Also, it's not merely that high tuition of many reputable private universities is more affordable to people with more money so they are more likely to attend such places. Just the fact in itself that these people are highly wealthy is often enough to get them in - private donations account for a large proportion of private college income.
Anyways...
Quote
Paris moved between several exclusive homes in her youth, including a suite in the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in Manhattan, Beverly Hills, and the Hamptons. She attended Marywood-Palm Valley School in Rancho Mirage, California her freshman year of high school; Dwight School in New York for her sophomore and junior years; then a few months at Canterbury School in Newmilford, Connecticut before dropping out. and eventually earned a GED.
Sounds real smart to me.
Quote from: Rule on August 31, 2007, 12:57:35 AM
Trust, UVA is way more highly regarded as a quality university than Hampden Sydney, so your argument of cost is questionable.
I would argue that you could get a better undergraduate education here than UVA. One of my professors is also a professor at UVA and he said that the UVA writing courses are extremely lax in comparison to our rhetoric. Coupled with smaller class size (my classes have about 15 kids each) and extremely accessibly professors. UVA has more nation wise name recognition, though, so if I were to apply for a job in a lot of states nobody would know what it was.
And the point I was trying to make wasn't that Paris was 'smart' (did I even use that word?) Instead it was that she isn't as dumb as they make her out to be.
I guarantee that Oxford and Cambridge have more name-brand association (or whatever you're claiming) than HS.
Quote from: Trust on August 31, 2007, 08:36:58 AM
And the point I was trying to make wasn't that Paris was 'smart' (did I even use that word?) Instead it was that she isn't as dumb as they make her out to be.
No, you said that she was bound to be more intelligent because she attended prestigious schools.
Quote from: rabbit on August 31, 2007, 11:43:31 AM
I guarantee that Oxford and Cambridge have more name-brand association (or whatever you're claiming) than HS.
When did he say anything about HS having "name brand association"? He specifically said
UVA has more than HS, and obviously schools like Oxford or Cambridge would have more than either. He said he thinks he would get a better education where he is going, and gave good enough reasoning, smaller class sizes and more accessible professors.
Quote from: rabbit on August 31, 2007, 11:43:31 AM
I guarantee that Oxford and Cambridge have more name-brand association (or whatever you're claiming) than HS.
Reading is good. Thanks Hitmen.
I'm sorry, I went to public school.
There's a mountain of difference between 'life smarts' and 'book smarts' . I'd be suprised if Hilton had either. But definately not Life. George Bush would obviously have both being the president. I read his war strategies and love them though regardless so i say both smarts but meh ;p
@sex: Paris Hilton not having std's would only not be a shocker 'cuz of her money. Her sister is for me ^^
Quote from: Beowulf on September 30, 2007, 01:06:50 AM
George Bush would obviously have both being the president.
Haha....