Pairs Hilton.

[Sidoh]

Your last few posts have been tangential to the argument at hand, Trust.

If she weren't so incompetent, her "academic" record would certainly help her get a job.  Schools famous for having good programs in certain areas definitely help their students get jobs; that's painfully obvious.  However, that does not mean that people who attend (or even graduate from) a prestigious university are intelligent.  That's what I was saying.  I wasn't saying any more or any less.

You also should realize that intelligence is a natural trait; it is not something that can be gained or lost through normal experiences like attending classes.  A person can certainly become more knowledgeable, perceptive or cultured from things like this, but it will not affect their intelligence -- their natural ability to not only absorb information, but to comprehend entire concepts.

[Explicit]

I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.

When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.

You place too much value on prestige and title.  A piece of paper can say anything, but a person speaks for his or her self.

And Sidoh, I agree; intelligence is a natural trait.

[trust]

I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.

When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.

You place too much value on prestige and title.  A piece of paper can say anything, but a person speaks for his or her self.

And Sidoh, I agree; intelligence is a natural trait.

It's not just me who places value on prestige and title, it's society in general. If you go up to two men (one with a PhD, and one without) and ask them a question, and each give you a separate answer who are you going to believe? Most people would believe the one with the PhD, simply because he has a PhD. Now compare somebody with a PhD from Harvard and someone with a PhD from some small university in the middle of Idaho. For sake of argument people here may say that they'd go with who has a better tract record in their field, or say the guy at the small university got a better education due to class size and not being a hoity toity Harvard man...but the general American public will go with the Ivy-educated gentlemen over the latter.

[Newby]

Just a note: Microsoft pulls all of its executives from the Ivy League graduates. =P

[Sidoh]

It's not just me who places value on prestige and title, it's society in general. If you go up to two men (one with a PhD, and one without) and ask them a question, and each give you a separate answer who are you going to believe? Most people would believe the one with the PhD, simply because he has a PhD. Now compare somebody with a PhD from Harvard and someone with a PhD from some small university in the middle of Idaho. For sake of argument people here may say that they'd go with who has a better tract record in their field, or say the guy at the small university got a better education due to class size and not being a hoity toity Harvard man...but the general American public will go with the Ivy-educated gentlemen over the latter.

Again, tangential (not that I care.  I just want to make sure we're clear :P).

I think that you're underplaying the significance of a PhD ("simply because he has a PhD").  Having a PhD degree shows that you understand the material encompassed in the subject.  Up until then, you could usually get by with memorizing procedures and facts that lead you to the right answer without understanding the underlying concepts.

While assuming an answer from a PhD is correct over an answer from a person with a lesser degree is definitely fallacious, one can normally assume that, at least at one time, the person with the PhD had an intimate understanding of the concepts involved with the subject the degree is in.

You can continue to spout anecdotal conclusions about how important the prestige of a school is, but, personally, I'm not so sure.  While I do agree that it has noticeable impact when applying to jobs, graduate schools, etc, I think that there are more important issues to concern oneself with (such as succeeding/excelling in your current studies, participating in research opportunities, etc).

[trust]

I know the requirements and qualifications of those with a PhD, the point I was making was that it's not only me who places so much emphasis on title. Surely there are individuals with a better understanding of material that lack a PhD over those who hold one.

[Sidoh]

I know the requirements and qualifications of those with a PhD, the point I was making was that it's not only me who places so much emphasis on title. Surely there are individuals with a better understanding of material that lack a PhD over those who hold one.

Yes, but someone having a PhD is a much better indication of their intelligence than which university they attended as an undergraduate, which is why I don't think your analogy works.

[Explicit]

I guess it comes down to who cares about prestige. I always envision the bigger schools as a bunch of rich people who think they're better than everybody else, so if I see that somebody graduated from one it isn't going to count in their favour. And I think a lot of people feel the same way. I even get looked down at sometimes for going to university at all from people who didn't go to a post-secondary school and who do the same job. They think that I'm going to act arrogantly because I have more education (and a lot of people with more education would); however, I'm the first person to admit that an extremely small amount of my education actually applies.

When you go to an Ivy League school the amount of prestige associated with the school is inescapable. Mention you graduated from Harvard and the amount of respect you get automatically increases, and I've seen this happen.

You place too much value on prestige and title. A piece of paper can say anything, but a person speaks for his or her self.

And Sidoh, I agree; intelligence is a natural trait.

It's not just me who places value on prestige and title, it's society in general. If you go up to two men (one with a PhD, and one without) and ask them a question, and each give you a separate answer who are you going to believe? Most people would believe the one with the PhD, simply because he has a PhD. Now compare somebody with a PhD from Harvard and someone with a PhD from some small university in the middle of Idaho. For sake of argument people here may say that they'd go with who has a better tract record in their field, or say the guy at the small university got a better education due to class size and not being a hoity toity Harvard man...but the general American public will go with the Ivy-educated gentlemen over the latter.

I'm simply saying that prestige isn't everything.  Personally, I'd be more interested in someone who's had to struggle to get to where they are, and I mean struggle and not having nearly everything paid for.

[AntiVirus]

Wtf?  Why is this in my forum? To answer the question, yes, you are right.  She is pretty hot. 

[Newby]

You know, I just realized the topic was spelled wrong.

[AntiVirus]

You know, I just realized the topic was spelled wrong.

Haha.  I didn't notice.  Yay for Pairs Hilton!

[Rule]

Trust, UVA is way more highly regarded as a quality university than Hampden Sydney, so your argument of cost is questionable.  Not to mention, Cambridge and Oxford are internationally the most highly regarded universities in the world, and to anyone in the European Union, the tuition at either amounts to about $3000/year.  I could go on with other examples: Berkeley, McGill, etc.

And getting into a prestigious university is not good evidence of intelligence.  Half of your argument has been that people perceive those who go to prestigious universities as more intelligent or successful, but that is completely different than your original claim - "Paris Hilton goes to a good school and therefore she is smart"; you're just arguing that your opinion is aligned with majority opinion.

Also, it's not merely that high tuition of many reputable private universities is more affordable to people with more money so they are more likely to attend such places.  Just the fact in itself that these people are highly wealthy is often enough to get them in - private donations account for a large proportion of private college income.

[Hitmen]

Anyways...

Paris moved between several exclusive homes in her youth, including a suite in the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in Manhattan, Beverly Hills, and the Hamptons. She attended Marywood-Palm Valley School in Rancho Mirage, California her freshman year of high school; Dwight School in New York for her sophomore and junior years; then a few months at Canterbury School in Newmilford, Connecticut before dropping out. and eventually earned a GED.

Sounds real smart to me.

[trust]

Trust, UVA is way more highly regarded as a quality university than Hampden Sydney, so your argument of cost is questionable. 

I would argue that you could get a better undergraduate education here than UVA. One of my professors is also a professor at UVA and he said that the UVA writing courses are extremely lax in comparison to our rhetoric. Coupled with smaller class size (my classes have about 15 kids each) and extremely accessibly professors. UVA has more nation wise name recognition, though, so if I were to apply for a job in a lot of states nobody would know what it was.


And the point I was trying to make wasn't that Paris was 'smart' (did I even use that word?) Instead it was that she isn't as dumb as they make her out to be.

[rabbit]

I guarantee that Oxford and Cambridge have more name-brand association (or whatever you're claiming) than HS.