The Dow Jones Average in the past five years: click to see. (http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1273548038963&chddm=493833&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=INDEXDJX:.DJI&ntsp=0)
Obama was inaugurated on January 20, 2009. He signed the stimulus package in February 2009. Within one month of signing the stimulus package, the Dow Jones average started to rise steadily for the first time in six months. Now, in May 2010, the Dow Jones average is nearing what it was before the recession, and is even slightly above what it was in 2005.
Come on you staunch Republicans. Let's give the man some credit. The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
While I'm unsure if he's done as much as he promised, I think he has done a fairly good job for what has happened during his office so far. He's under so much pressure to do well, more than a normal (read: white) president, that I could understand that people during his presidency don't appreciate him.
I do believe that as long as he doesn't have any major screw ups in the future, he will be remembered as a good president.
Quote from: Ender on May 10, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
That's an entirely short-sighted and wrong viewpoint on whether or not our economy is fixed. While I don't have exact figures on me right now, unemployment rates are still pretty dismal, even those that are educated. Large corporations are still letting people go, even "critical" people such as engineers, IT technicians, etc etc. Large public institutions (e.g. state colleges) are struggling because they aren't receiving as much aid from the state as they used to be, another sign of an economy that isn't as strong as it used to be pre-recession. Also, stocks are a measure of
faith in the economy. The stock market doing well has little to do with the actual state of the economy; if investors perceive today to be a good time, they'll invest, bringing up the Dow/S&P 500/NASDAQ points. Lastly, the effects of having spent $819bn, all of which cannot be borrowed [meaning the government had to print some/all of it, depending on the amount borrowed] is not going to have short-run economic impact. Something like that will, as the economy recovers in all aspects, shift supply costs gradually upward, seriously screwing some people.
Quote from: deadly7 on May 13, 2010, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: Ender on May 10, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
While I don't have exact figures on me right now... [blah, blah blah, blah blah blah]
and so it begins...
Quote from: Ender on May 14, 2010, 10:06:27 PM
Quote from: deadly7 on May 13, 2010, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: Ender on May 10, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
While I don't have exact figures on me right now... [blah, blah blah, blah blah blah]
You realize you failed to make a counter-point, right? deadly wins.
Quote from: Joe on May 15, 2010, 06:42:05 AM
Quote from: Ender on May 14, 2010, 10:06:27 PM
Quote from: deadly7 on May 13, 2010, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: Ender on May 10, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
While I don't have exact figures on me right now... [blah, blah blah, blah blah blah]
You realize you failed to make a counter-point, right? deadly wins.
You realize that you need to improve your reading comprehension? My point was: deadly has no evidence to back his claims. An argument without evidence amounts to nothing. It would be like saying, "While I don't have any photographic evidence... I beseech you, believe me, the sky is red, the grass is purple!"
Quote from: deadly7 on May 13, 2010, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: Ender on May 10, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
Lastly, the effects of having spent $819bn, all of which cannot be borrowed [meaning the government had to print some/all of it, depending on the amount borrowed] is not going to have short-run economic impact. Something like that will, as the economy recovers in all aspects, shift supply costs gradually upward, seriously screwing some people.
Not only did you not supply evidence to contradict me, but you don't know your history. One of the ways we could have mitigated the Great Depression was if the U.S. had pumped more money into the world economy. After World War I, European countries stopped trading, and after a while the U.S. stopped lending. This greatly exacerbated the issue. Eighty years later, in February 2009, we responded to a similar economic crisis by injecting money into the economy - the stimulus package - acting based on a lesson learned from history. And look what it did!
This is why politics should not be brought back. Nobody fucking cares. Except those that post, and they just insult each other.
Quote from: Armin on May 15, 2010, 06:04:29 PM
This is why politics should not be brought back. Nobody fucking cares. Except those that post, and they just insult each other.
You're the one who's swearing ;-) It was quite a harmless discussion until you supplied the invective.
Using the DOW index's 5 year historical data to support your claim is naive.
Except that it was designed to be a measure of the economy?
I grant you it is prudent to cite more than just one measurement, but it's not my intention to write an essay on this topic. If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves? As it stands, no one has made a good argument against the value of the Dow Jones Average. No one except myself has made a post involving numbers... can the right-wing coalition please stop their idle blabbering?
What you argue cannot be proved nor disproved definitely, so it's pointless arguing over it. The fact of the matter is that it's not as straight forward as you claim to give Obama 100% credit for the recovery of the DOW and US markets. Remember, Bush deployed similar 'stimulus' strategies to combat the economic decline back before Obama ever stepped foot into the Oval office. And it's hard to say the effect of these on the recovery because you must realize that anything Congress or the President does isn't instantaneous effective and takes time to start reaping benefits, so your claims are wildly premature in my opinion. Only time will tell, and by far it's too premature to do so now. Indicators of economic recovery go far beyond just the stock markets, which is why your claims are naive. You're very narrow minded if you think otherwise.
With unemployment still at 9.5%, it will be interesting to watch its trend, especially the impact of the temporary Census jobs. Again like the stock markets, unemployment fluctuates depending on many different variables, i.e. seasonal trends, and what not. It's too soon to use any one variable, whether it's the stock markets, unemployment rate, whatever as an indicator of the long term recovery.
It's amusing how you accuse everyone who disagrees with your claim as a thoughtless Republican. It just sheds doubt on how objective and unbiased your claims are. Goes to show your partisanship is just as much of the problem as the Republicans, the party of No. I did not vote this past Presidential election. I have never voted actually. I am registered as an independent. So calling me a dirty Republican or w/e is hilarious.
I used to think you were a pretty smart guy, but then again that was more towards math. I see that your abilities in other areas are rather disappointing.
Quote from: while1 on May 16, 2010, 10:00:53 PM
What you argue cannot be proved nor disproved definitely, so it's pointless arguing over it. The fact of the matter is that it's not as straight forward as you claim to give Obama 100% credit for the recovery of the DOW and US markets. Remember, Bush deployed similar 'stimulus' strategies to combat the economic decline back before Obama ever stepped foot into the Oval office. And it's hard to say the effect of these on the recovery because you must realize that anything Congress or the President does isn't instantaneous effective and takes time to start reaping benefits, so your claims are wildly premature in my opinion. Only time will tell, and by far it's too premature to do so now. Indicators of economic recovery go far beyond just the stock markets, which is why your claims are naive. You're very narrow minded if you think otherwise.
With unemployment still at 9.5%, it will be interesting to watch its trend, especially the impact of the temporary Census jobs. Again like the stock markets, unemployment fluctuates depending on many different variables, i.e. seasonal trends, and what not. It's too soon to use any one variable, whether it's the stock markets, unemployment rate, whatever as an indicator of the long term recovery.
It's amusing how you accuse everyone who disagrees with your claim as a thoughtless Republican. It just sheds doubt on how objective and unbiased your claims are. Goes to show your partisanship is just as much of the problem as the Republicans, the party of No. I did not vote this past Presidential election. I have never voted actually. I am registered as an independent. So calling me a dirty Republican or w/e is hilarious.
I used to think you were a pretty smart guy, but then again that was more towards math. I see that your abilities in other areas are rather disappointing.
All I have to say is: do your research, cite some sources, and don't just spout nonsense without bothering to get any data.
I recommend that you read this article from The Economist: http://www.economist.com/business-finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=16083498
Or perhaps this: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/04/american_economy
Obviously there is more work to be done, but it is undeniable that our economy is recovering, and that it coincided with the stimulus package. Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults. Comments like "you're very narrow-minded if you think otherwise" do not disprove the "otherwise" you refer to.
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves?
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults.
My my, lil baby can dish it but can't take it, do I hear the wambulance?!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM. You're such a mediocre troll.
Lulz. You're too funny. You should run for public office. You've got the hypocrisy down and the partisanship. Your trolling style is evident in the way you try and portray yourself as the person that takes the high road, yet in reality you don't and won't hesitate to call out another. It's amusing.
HAY GUYS, OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN. AND HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN. HE MUST BE A TERRRRRRRRRRRRIST (lulz, Bush made me laugh everytime he said terrorist). ZOMG, OBAMA IS LIKE HITLER AND IS DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST.
ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. OBAMA TOUCHED MY PENIS AND MADE ME CALL HIM DADDY.
I love Godwin's Law.
Quote from: while1 on May 17, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves?
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults.
My my, lil baby can dish it but can't take it, do I hear the wambulance?!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM. You're such a mediocre troll.
Lulz. You're too funny. You should run for public office. You've got the hypocrisy down and the partisanship. Your trolling style is evident in the way you try and portray yourself as the person that takes the high road, yet in reality you don't and won't hesitate to call out another. It's amusing.
HAY GUYS, OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN. AND HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN. HE MUST BE A TERRRRRRRRRRRRIST (lulz, Bush made me laugh everytime he said terrorist). ZOMG, OBAMA IS LIKE HITLER AND IS DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST.
ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. OBAMA TOUCHED MY PENIS AND MADE ME CALL HIM DADDY.
I love Godwin's Law.
This is why people realized "debating" with him is useless. He's as close minded, if not moreso, than the "Republicans" he accuses us all of being.
Quote from: Ender on May 10, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
The Dow Jones Average in the past five years: click to see. (http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1273548038963&chddm=493833&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=INDEXDJX:.DJI&ntsp=0)
Obama was inaugurated on January 20, 2009. He signed the stimulus package in February 2009. Within one month of signing the stimulus package, the Dow Jones average started to rise steadily for the first time in six months. Now, in May 2010, the Dow Jones average is nearing what it was before the recession, and is even slightly above what it was in 2005.
Come on you staunch Republicans. Let's give the man some credit. The stimulus package got the job done. Obama fixed our economy.
OK, so all of Congress acted re: the bailout (which was first done under Bush), then the DOW goes up...and it's all thanks to Obama?
Well then I'm
blaming Obama for the market crashing these last few days...even if everyone else says it's Europe's fault.
Quote from: while1 on May 17, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves?
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults.
My my, lil baby can dish it but can't take it, do I hear the wambulance?!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM. You're such a mediocre troll.
Lulz. You're too funny. You should run for public office. You've got the hypocrisy down and the partisanship. Your trolling style is evident in the way you try and portray yourself as the person that takes the high road, yet in reality you don't and won't hesitate to call out another. It's amusing.
HAY GUYS, OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN. AND HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN. HE MUST BE A TERRRRRRRRRRRRIST (lulz, Bush made me laugh everytime he said terrorist). ZOMG, OBAMA IS LIKE HITLER AND IS DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST.
ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. OBAMA TOUCHED MY PENIS AND MADE ME CALL HIM DADDY.
I love Godwin's Law.
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Quote from: while1 on May 16, 2010, 10:00:53 PM
What you argue cannot be proved nor disproved definitely, so it's pointless arguing over it. The fact of the matter is that it's not as straight forward as you claim to give Obama 100% credit for the recovery of the DOW and US markets. Remember, Bush deployed similar 'stimulus' strategies to combat the economic decline back before Obama ever stepped foot into the Oval office. And it's hard to say the effect of these on the recovery because you must realize that anything Congress or the President does isn't instantaneous effective and takes time to start reaping benefits, so your claims are wildly premature in my opinion. Only time will tell, and by far it's too premature to do so now. Indicators of economic recovery go far beyond just the stock markets, which is why your claims are naive. You're very narrow minded if you think otherwise.
With unemployment still at 9.5%, it will be interesting to watch its trend, especially the impact of the temporary Census jobs. Again like the stock markets, unemployment fluctuates depending on many different variables, i.e. seasonal trends, and what not. It's too soon to use any one variable, whether it's the stock markets, unemployment rate, whatever as an indicator of the long term recovery.
It's amusing how you accuse everyone who disagrees with your claim as a thoughtless Republican. It just sheds doubt on how objective and unbiased your claims are. Goes to show your partisanship is just as much of the problem as the Republicans, the party of No. I did not vote this past Presidential election. I have never voted actually. I am registered as an independent. So calling me a dirty Republican or w/e is hilarious.
I used to think you were a pretty smart guy, but then again that was more towards math. I see that your abilities in other areas are rather disappointing.
All I have to say is: do your research, cite some sources, and don't just spout nonsense without bothering to get any data.
I recommend that you read this article from The Economist: http://www.economist.com/business-finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=16083498
Or perhaps this: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/04/american_economy
Obviously there is more work to be done, but it is undeniable that our economy is recovering, and that it coincided with the stimulus package. Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults. Comments like "you're very narrow-minded if you think otherwise" do not disprove the "otherwise" you refer to.
Obviously you can't follow through with the text in bold. You are too lazy to actually research the matter and come up with a legitimate argument, so you take the easy way out and call me a troll. Real impressive.
Quote from: deadly7 on May 17, 2010, 10:38:46 PM
Quote from: while1 on May 17, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves?
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults.
My my, lil baby can dish it but can't take it, do I hear the wambulance?!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM. You're such a mediocre troll.
Lulz. You're too funny. You should run for public office. You've got the hypocrisy down and the partisanship. Your trolling style is evident in the way you try and portray yourself as the person that takes the high road, yet in reality you don't and won't hesitate to call out another. It's amusing.
HAY GUYS, OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN. AND HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN. HE MUST BE A TERRRRRRRRRRRRIST (lulz, Bush made me laugh everytime he said terrorist). ZOMG, OBAMA IS LIKE HITLER AND IS DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST.
ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. OBAMA TOUCHED MY PENIS AND MADE ME CALL HIM DADDY.
I love Godwin's Law.
This is why people realized "debating" with him is useless. He's as close minded, if not moreso, than the "Republicans" he accuses us all of being.
You suffer from the same dilemma: not once in this thread have you provided a shred of evidence to support your claims. Really guys, these are the times tables of debate - if you are going to make a claim, support it with evidence. Else you are just wasting everyone's time, including your own.
Quote from: while1 on May 17, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves?
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults.
My my, lil baby can dish it but can't take it, do I hear the wambulance?!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM. You're such a mediocre troll.
Lulz. You're too funny. You should run for public office. You've got the hypocrisy down and the partisanship. Your trolling style is evident in the way you try and portray yourself as the person that takes the high road, yet in reality you don't and won't hesitate to call out another. It's amusing.
HAY GUYS, OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN. AND HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN. HE MUST BE A TERRRRRRRRRRRRIST (lulz, Bush made me laugh everytime he said terrorist). ZOMG, OBAMA IS LIKE HITLER AND IS DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST.
ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. OBAMA TOUCHED MY PENIS AND MADE ME CALL HIM DADDY.
I love Godwin's Law.
not to take sides in this silliness, but this is officially the worst post that has ever been made on these forums
And by not taking sides, Hitmen means you suck too, Ender.
Yes, I speak for Hitmen.
Quote from: Hitmen on May 19, 2010, 07:33:13 PM
Quote from: while1 on May 17, 2010, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 08:11:30 PM
If you thoughtless Republicans want to argue to the contrary, why don't you pull up some figures yourselves?
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Please limit your response to legitimate argument, rather than personal insults.
My my, lil baby can dish it but can't take it, do I hear the wambulance?!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM. You're such a mediocre troll.
Lulz. You're too funny. You should run for public office. You've got the hypocrisy down and the partisanship. Your trolling style is evident in the way you try and portray yourself as the person that takes the high road, yet in reality you don't and won't hesitate to call out another. It's amusing.
HAY GUYS, OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN. AND HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN. HE MUST BE A TERRRRRRRRRRRRIST (lulz, Bush made me laugh everytime he said terrorist). ZOMG, OBAMA IS LIKE HITLER AND IS DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST.
ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. OBAMA TOUCHED MY PENIS AND MADE ME CALL HIM DADDY.
I love Godwin's Law.
not to take sides in this silliness, but this is officially the worst post that has ever been made on these forums
Thank you, I try.
Quote from: Armin on May 19, 2010, 07:51:06 PM
And by not taking sides, Hitmen means you suck too, Ender.
Yes, I speak for Hitmen.
Write me an emo guitar song.
Quote from: Hitmen on May 19, 2010, 07:33:13 PM
not to take sides in this silliness, but this is officially the worst post that has ever been made on these forums