Messages

331

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: April 02, 2006, 08:28:54 pm »

I went to Digikey to get better information and they actually have a better price on them too. They weigh about 5.5lbs so they are no where close to a car battery and are probably very much similar to a laptop battery. http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1591.pdf for detailed specs. The thing about the battery is it needs to be rechargable and cheap is preferred. I also suspect that most motors can handle this weight with ease. You have to remember the plan is to have rather large motors, i.e. bigger than what you'd find in most RC cars and such.

My neighbor who lives behind me built a battlebot type deal, which used like 1/4" thick steel plate as a base which weighed more than the batteries he used to power it. I'm not exactly sure on the types of motors he used, I guess I should find out.

Not really planning to solder the aluminum, I plan to bolt everything to it basically. Have better suggestions for a base material thats cheap and can be easily acquired?

The problem with things like Damn Small Linux is that its made to be used as a workstationish environment and so not really suitable for this project. I've also realized that my cf size and memory may be on the overboard side. I could scale them back to way less probably.

332

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: April 01, 2006, 10:21:33 pm »

Looking at a couple of http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049668s to be the batteries. Think I should have a seperate battery dedicated solely to the computer?

The local newspaper sells aluminum plates that are 35"x 23-1/16"x.007" thick for $0.20 each. It doesn't really sound thick enough but I'll have to investigate more.

I dug up an old webcam, which appears to have drivers made for it already on Linux. The webcam does 640x480 @ 30fps so it should be more then plenty for my needs.

Now I just have to figure out which linux distro to try and use. Any suggestions from the crowd?

Also I saw somewhere online a suggestion of using windshield wiper motors, if only I knew where to find a junk yard because I could probably salvage some of those for rather cheap.

[edit]
The mapping Wifi hot spots is a neat idea actually, but I'm unsure how useful it'd be around here. Solar panels seem like a cool idea but unless my robot is going to be outside for extended periods of time on its own they aren't very useful. Making it know to return home to recharge however is a very good idea and I can probably be done.
[/edit]

333

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: April 01, 2006, 03:01:12 pm »

So just sort of looking around at various parts and I've come up with this list:
VIA EPIA ME6000 LVDS Fanless Motherboard $135 @ http://www.mini-itx.com/store/
Compact Flash to IDE Adapter (Type 1/2) $34 @ http://www.mini-itx.com/store/
Kingston 512MB Compact Flash (CF) Flash Media $24 @ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820160013
Crucial Technology 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 266 $106 @ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145085

Still requires wireless card and wireless AP, as well as motors + way to drive them + batteries.

334

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: March 31, 2006, 04:43:29 pm »

Not intending to get sponsorship or anything of the sort, this is just a project for fun.

335

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: March 31, 2006, 04:04:34 pm »

I've done the breadboard stuff before, and used handyboards for robotic development at school. My only problem with these is that they weren't very powerful and didn't interface with anything else well.

I don't really know of anything aside from USB/Firewire that will provide modular components like I'd like. I also suspect that if I wanted to go down that road it'd be even more expensive. Thats one advantage of using something more common in everyday use like USB that it will be cheaper.

Feanor: $1000 on just peripherals seems excessive.

On wifi: being able to quickly switch access points or what not isn't a huge deal. I mainly plan to use it for information relay/debugging to avoid cables. It will probably also be used for remote control in the start.

So heres my list of goals for now atleast:
1. Remote control drivable, w/video
2. Autonomous with simple sensors, and simple tasks like avoid light or just move around avoiding obstacles, etc.
3. Autonomous and traveling along GPS waypoints, the idea being that I can give it GPS waypoints down my street and it will be able to travel there based only on its knowledge.

Edit:
I came across http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=61 which talks briefly about making a PC based robot. I also found http://www.linuxrobots.org/ which seems helpful.

336

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: March 31, 2006, 01:43:17 am »

In a way yes, but that isn't the only goal/objective and so as such I don't really want to make use a specific hardware just to accomplish that goal.

337

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: March 31, 2006, 01:28:11 am »

I didn't read your second post, but I'll say what I know from my school. 

You might want to look into getting a microcontroller such as an Atmel AVR development board.  I have written small programs for it (it's written in C, interfaces over serial with Linux, Mac, or Windows), and it's fairly easy to program.  I'd recommend similar boards for robotics, I know the main robotics prof at my school uses Atmel.  The board I have was about $120.  You can probably figure out which board is best by checking around robotics websites. 

In terms of control, at my school we use infra-red.  At school, the tiny little controllers on-board our tanks understand approximately 4 commands (speed up/slow down left/right treads) It is cheap and consumes little power.  Another option is just to use a modulated wave, probably in the 2.2 - 2.4ghz range since that's the only legal frequency.  Using standard WiFi is typically wasteful in terms of CPU and power, and it is usually way overkill.  The idea of robotics is to implement exactly what you need, and nothing else. 

In terms of movement, I'd suggest starting with something small, like wheels.  At school, we used a tank with treads.  If you're planning on doing autonomous agents, you're going to need to track down collision sensors or something similar, but I think that's beyond what you're trying to do.  If you want something more complicated, you have to start getting into cervos (servos?  I've never seen it spelled..), which are quite pricy. 

Hopefully that helps a little. 

The biggest thing for me is the ability to move into new areas if I so desire which to me means power and overkill for now. I've looked at the Amtels before but it doesn't really seem to me like they'd have enough power to handle something like video processing?

The other advantage of using a x86 based computer is usb support and all the goodies that come along with it. Should I decide I want to add a GPS receiver or such its a matter of buying it and plugging it in vs. having to solder a chip onto a board and wires, etc. I'm sort of in favor of using off the shelf parts because if I end up getting in way over my head they will atleast have ebay value.

Bump sensors and such will be easy enough to get for a start on autonomous work, the only question is how to get these inputs? USB can probably only support so much and theres the issue of I doubt something like bump sensors will come USB ready.

The idea behind using standard wifi is that it will be easy and I'll be able to do things like stream video/other information down for debugging.

For movement I'm definitely started with wheels, but of course if it all works good and is cool I won't rule out wings someday. Its servos btw, and yeah most of the parts needed are way up there in the price range which is why I'm considering improvising on them for now.

338

General Discussion / Re: Building a robot...?

« on: March 31, 2006, 12:10:30 am »

I haven't made a robot before, but I have looked it up.  It's going to be a bitch to make, but best of luck to yeh.
Edit:
Zorm, are you going to have it go off of Voice commands or like, are you going to have it respond to you typing commands into a console and sending them to it?
What kind of material are you going to be using?
How big of a robot are you going to make?
What are some of the features that it will have?

just some questions to help get you started.

Definitely not voice commands, main idea for right now is controlling it via the wifi connection. Possibly with something like a joystick to start off and then as the project progresses it can get more advanced. My idea is that I'll be able to start out very simple and work my way up to something more advanced.

I'm not really sure on the material thats going to be used, most likely aluminum and plastic. For now I'm thinking something slightly bigger than your typical RC car, with 6 wheels(3 on each side).

Featurewise, I'm going to say having 6 wheels and possibly a camera to start with. If I can get that far I'll be well off for the future.


Some concerns/idea/questions:
Power is going to be a big deal, the cpu will have to be something with low power consumption. I suspect I'll end up using something like lead-acid batteries for power. However, what should be done about storage for files on the computer? Something like flash media to lessen power consumption?

Wifi, what will get me the best range/bandwidth? Currently I have no wifi in my house so an access point will need to be acquired. Suggestions?

Cost is the other huge concern, I'm thinking that I should be able to raid some local thrift stores for things like motors/parts for the base and what not. Any ideas of specific electronics/appliances I should look at for motors? I also need to check out the black hole and see what it has, I may be able to acquire some goodies from there.

339

General Discussion / Building a robot...?

« on: March 30, 2006, 11:42:44 pm »

So anyways I've always been curious about robotics and robots and now I have the urge to make one. I want it to be intel based, and probably using wifi as the main communication method. However, there are a vast number of problems related to this and so I was wondering if anyone has done this before or knows anyone who has?

I'm avoiding pre-built kits because they are rather lame and vastly limited in what they can do. Linux on a robot would be far superior to most of these kits. I want to be able to make a NFS on wheels or an autonomous robot and anything inbetween should I so desire.

I've got ~$200 as seed money for this project, but clearly thats not nearly enough. However, will be searching for the best method and deals. Also seed money could double or even quadruple in a few weeks so we shall see.

340

General Discussion / Re: MySpace not TOTALLY useless..

« on: March 30, 2006, 12:32:47 am »

Hey now, theres absolutely nothing wrong with myspace. It allows me to talk to RL friends online without me having to drag them onto IRC or something else of the sort. You should be thankful, it collects all the retards at one location instead of allowing them to pollute the rest of the internet.

BTW, I'd say that atleast some of the people on myspace, i.e. the real life friends I talk to on it, are infact smart but not really computer/tech savy. Be careful when looking to ensure that they are infact "100% pure retard."

341

iago's forum / Re: Mmm, uptime

« on: March 28, 2006, 11:07:26 pm »

My computer suffered a hard reset from a BSOD after ~160 days. I am very very sad.

342

General Discussion / Re: Immigration Protest.

« on: March 28, 2006, 09:45:31 pm »

Interestingly enough, how many of these mexicans that you know working at these places are actually illegal immigrants? Most the mexicans that I've seen/know of are infact legal and I suspect this is true for a large chunk of them. Afterall you do hear about them picking up illegals at places like Walmart but never in the amounts to make you think the economy would come crashing down should all the illegals be forced out.

I suspect the area where you'd find the most of these sorts of people would be the ones who just work on farms since they get paid with cash and don't have to worry about worker status.

343

General Discussion / Re: I bought Counter Stirke: Source....

« on: March 27, 2006, 05:33:20 pm »

...or maybe you could just buy it?  Seeing as that only one instance of a given account can be active at a time, it would be pretty clear to Valve that you're pirating their software.

I haven't played CS:S in a while, but I wouldn't mind it!

Unless its changed you are wrong. You can login to your steam account and play any game you own on any computer. I'm rather sure you can play single player with mutliple logins however you can't have the same steam id on a server twice so that puts a limit on sharing your account with a friend.

344

General Discussion / Re: Troops to remain in Iraq until 2009?

« on: March 22, 2006, 09:16:27 am »

No -- but Zorm tried to say Bush did not create the present Iraq war -- when infact he did.

Proof that he did? We had troops committed to combat operations in Iraq before he was even president. Nice try and all but no he didn't start it.

345

General Discussion / Re: Troops to remain in Iraq until 2009?

« on: March 22, 2006, 12:59:52 am »

We're only staying because Bush created this mess.

Bush didn't create it. Saddam created it in 1990 when he invaded Kuwait and the international community decided it was unacceptable. Bush was simply finishing the job that started before. Also keep in mind combat operations never stopped after the first Gulf War. We had warplanes overflying Iraq with the Iraqis shooting at them everyday since the start in 1991.