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It's hard to define it now. It used to be a battle.net clan. Well, a battle.net programming clan. But then you take the 'battle.net' out, and you even take out the 'programming' since not everyone here would identify that way. Some people passed this way through battle.net. Others found the board via the valhalla legends forum (which, by the way, seem to be down), others from friends of friends. What are you left with? A bunch of people who have been accessing the same URLs for some time now. How else can you describe it?

Wow, thanks for the response nslay. I had read that GPL could be used strategically but I didn't really understand it until reading your explanation. I'll probably go the BSD/MIT route... thanks again for your feedback.

To be more specific - I'm probably looking for a permissive license as opposed to a copyleft, which rules out GPL. So two major candidates are MIT and BSD. Among these, any major differences/requirements? I think there's an advertising restriction in some permissive licenses but not others. Anything else that I'm unaware of? Any other candidates I should consider?

Thanks again.

I'm looking at the 'popular licenses' listed at this website: http://opensource.org/licenses/category. What are the advantages/disadvantages to each? Are there any big differences? Any major restrictions present in some licenses that are absent in others? Which would you choose?

I appreciate all input. Thanks in advance.

Feel free to move into general programming. I posted this in here accidentally.

Two questions. One, are web frameworks worth it? I'm talking about django, RoR, Java/Spring/JSP, and ASP/.NET. Two, which is the most practical and convenient framework for the individual programmer? If I had to guess it would be Python django or Ruby on Rails. But are they really worth learning... or is it better just doing things purely in PHP?

I like to follow the principle of K.I.S.S., and these popular web frameworks seem to defy it.

I think this is too simplistic. How do you determine that a person is stupid? I have a relative who is a bit backwards in his social and political views. He makes anti-gay jokes and hates President Obama. He never went to college, couldn't solve an algebraic equation, and has trouble with words and spelling. But he can also take almost anyone that I know in a fight; he can drive his car all the way across the country (coast to coast) in three days; and busts his ass working overtime to give everything to his kids with a low-to-decent paying job. These last three things I tend to value more than political views, high school mathematics, and literacy. Would you deny him the right to vote?

Holy false equivalencies, Batman. I'm glad you know someone you find personally great, was there an actual useful bit in that otherwise irrelevant story? You already said this person is uneducated, bigoted, and otherwise incapable of having a well-formulated political opinion, I don't see how anything else you said helps your case.

The point was that it is dangerous to say "people are stupid". This relative of mine might fit the description by one criteria, but by another he clearly doesn't. You might say: "Okay, Ender, you have proved that he is strong, hardworking, and dependable. These are not traits of intelligence." I should follow up by saying: he is capable of telling great stories, and entertaining. He clearly has a certain intelligence, but not another. Which is why it's dangerous to say, "people are stupid", and dismiss them.

I harp on this point because I used to be of that mentality, and now I no longer am.

I ask whether we should deny him the right to vote. He never went to college but he is not uneducated. The military provides a unique education. I said he makes anti-gay jokes, which bothers me a lot, but he gets along well with gays. I said he's a bit backward in his social and political opinions, but that doesn't mean he isn't pragmatic about other political issues. You could meet many liberals who are a lot more progressive than him but have far less practical ideas on government spending, big gov't vs. small, etc. The point is you can't rule people in two categories: 'stupid' and 'not stupid', 'capable of voting' and 'not capable of voting'.

The reason I bring him up is not because I am trying to boast about my idols (which you insinuate). He is not my idol. I could easily tell you the people who are. But the reason is that he is so very different from me that I have learned a lot from him. He and many others have changed the way I think about people. I'm sharing my experience, that's all.

Why so provocative?

[hate]

I thought I would update you guys. I got an IT job, which is not bad for my first job out of college. It's a six month contract, and after I finish I will apply for software engineering jobs. My hope is that with this job on my resume, and my part-time job in college, both employing SQL, Unix, and Java, I will have enough 'credentials' to be taken seriously for software development. In the meanwhile I might want to learn .NET and RoR.

While an English degree is a hurdle in the short run, I think that in the long run I'll be happy that I did it. While it would be nice to be rich, I don't put too much stock in the idea. It's more important to me to be able to live where I want, like the people I work with and have fun on the job. And, ultimately, it's the immaterial things that make me happy.

NOTE: The scary thing about my job is the commute. I don't yet have a car (my cousin totalled my old one) so I'm biking ten miles to work every day. There and back. It's a nightmare. I hate biking across intersections. I hate biking across traffic. SCARY.

ALSO: I'll be getting a car in the next 2-3 weeks and then I'll be driving to work every day from my new apartment. It will be a 40-70 minute commute depending on traffic. This is also scary. I haven't driven more than a dozen times in the past five years. I only just started driving on the highway a few weeks ago. Is anyone else scared by driving? It seems to me that smart people are scared of it and stupid people aren't - because the stupid people don't understand the physics of accidents!

City planners and stuff deny permits for companies all the time for much less.

In general, I don't like democracy. People are fucking stupid. Don't let them decide. Tell them that this is fucking stupid and do it for them.

I think this is too simplistic. How do you determine that a person is stupid? I have a relative who is a bit backwards in his social and political views. He makes anti-gay jokes and hates President Obama. He never went to college, couldn't solve an algebraic equation, and has trouble with words and spelling. But he can also take almost anyone that I know in a fight; he can drive his car all the way across the country (coast to coast) in three days; and busts his ass working overtime to give everything to his kids with a low-to-decent paying job. These last three things I tend to value more than political views, high school mathematics, and literacy. Would you deny him the right to vote?

not really.

and now they reliably vote for more services and fewer taxes. people are fucking dumb, and i think there exists a solution superior to democracy. democracy fucking sucks.

yeah, yeah. i don't think this guy should be denied the uh... "right" to have a restaurant in an area full of people who think he's a prick. i'm just mad at people who think they're doing something good by buying chic-fil-a.

Ideally we would want an intelligent, rational, humane, and selfless dictator.  But I'm not sure how we could guarantee that.  Smart people aren't necessarily trustworthy or acting in the interests of society.

Taking this a bit further, I think it's impossible for a single person to have a complete understanding of concepts like justice, fairness, social equality and tolerance. Each idea is a work in progress, and requires the collective to refine it. Any one person has prejudices; no single person is flexible enough to adapt to every stride of progress. More importantly, and perhaps harder to grasp, is the fact that any single person is limited to a single perspective. I think it's hard to understand the significance of this statement - i.e., how incomplete an individual perspective really is, when taken with (compared to and contrasted with) the whole. It's a question of values, really. Two people can arrive at opposite conclusions on a matter at hand, and both be right, given that they both have faith in their values. If I learned anything from mathematics, it's that nothing can be proven without an assumption. The same is true for 'right' and 'wrong', 'rational' and 'irrational', 'smart' and 'stupid' and 'correct' and 'incorrect'. To place any idea into one of these dichotomies is to make an assumption.

How important is a comp sci degree in getting programming jobs?

I have a certain contempt for salaried jobs

I'd say that these kind of jobs, a CS degree will be of more importance than the freelance/ temp type gigs. 

It really all depends though, while job postings may say the minimum requirements is a BS in CS or w/e, many will be flexible towards applicants if you have relevant past work experience and/ or a portfolio of work.  I think you're best bet is to find employment where an employer is willing to take a chance on you so that you can gain some experience that can be put on paper.

Good to know that you think employers will take a chance. I was leaning towards creating a portfolio. Sounds like it will be a plus.

One more question iago. (I'd be interested in others' feedback as well.) How important is a comp sci degree in getting programming jobs? I was talking to a friend the other day, a professor in art history, who stressed that we live in a world of credentials, and recommended I look into masters programs. Do you think a masters would be worth it? Or do employers look beyond the credentials to get a sense of a person's competence and intelligence?

It just occurred to me that Myndfyre studied history and poli sci in college, foregoing computer science. He landed a job with Microsoft, didn't he? How did he go about it? Did he pursue a Masters afterward, or did he just do a good job of conveying his skills and talents to employers?

I don't like Facebook either, blaze. As soon as I reenabled it it made me feel uncomfortable.

iago: Thanks for your advice. I suppose I'll start learning Ruby and Rails. Last time I checked, .NET wasn't free, and Visual Studio didn't run too well on OS X. If these things have changed, I could possibly warm up to it. Otherwise I'm generally averse to Microsoft products.

By the way: I see Rule has been made a member. I was always pulling for him. I'm glad :-)

Lol iago. Thanks for the warm greeting. I just lost a winning chess game so I was bitter until I read your reply. I wonder, has x86 shifted over to facebook? I disabled mine a long time ago but it might be worth reenabling. Let me know. Hope all is well with you!

Hi everyone,

It's been a while. I graduated college and am now looking for jobs. An English major makes jobs a bit difficult - but I was never interested in money. However, it's practically important, and I thought I would rejoin these forums to get back in touch with my programming roots, hoping to find employment as a software engineer, or independent income as a web designer.

As regards these two goals: (1) software engineering jobs and (2) independent web design, I was wondering what are the best languages and skills that I should pick up to make myself desirable? I'm proficient in Java and Python, good with SQL, rusty with PHP/HTML/CSS. I have the good fortune of being able to put already one IT/programming job on my resume, where I worked as a report writer composing SQL queries and outputting the results in an Excel spreadsheet. I worked this job for a year and a half.

So, if you were in my shoes, what kind of jobs would you go after, what websites would you use (monster.com, craigslist, etc.) and what languages/skills would you acquire in your free time to land a gig?

I appreciate any advice. Really, my plan is to travel, and I have a certain contempt for salaried jobs that would threaten to get in the way. I find temp programming jobs very interesting, as I'm thinking about travelling in the winter and spring. This is also why independent web design has such an appeal for me.

It feels good to reconnect! I had forgotten that I had this resource. But I suppose it's a good resource for all of us. I checked my profile and realized I've been registered for seven years! I must have been in this clan for over five years. Wow! If any of you are in the Chicago area, I'd be open to meeting up.

best,
Andrew

You're a homo(nym)

You don't make friends with salad, you don't make friends with salad!

didn't you hear?  it's so cliche to gripe about bose being cliche.

you must've missed the last hipster meeting.  how very hipster of you.

deadly goes to hipster meetings?

deadly, you've come far

no, he's too hipster to go to the meetings.

Hipster meetings are actually not a point in time or space, they are a point in another dimension. In other words he "went".