Re: Abortion ethics dilema

[iago]

It's still a fine way to rationalize not killing babies

I think that's where the whole debate hinges -- people who are pro-abortion (not going to call them "pro-choice", that terminology is retarded) don't believe that they ARE babies.

[iago]

if you kill babies you kill baby jesus!

You realize that a baby isn't called a "baby" until it's born, right? Before that, it's a foetus. Using the word "baby" only confuses the issue.

[CrAz3D]

if you kill babies you kill baby jesus!

You realize that a baby isn't called a "baby" until it's born, right? Before that, it's a foetus. Using the word "baby" only confuses the issue.

fetus?

I done and figure once a lady done and pregnant that she be carryin' 'round her little babe.  You ever hear a mom say "feel the fetus kick"?  No you havent.  Its a baby.

[iago]

fetus?

Words that originated on latin that contain "oe" or "œ" are frequently shortened to "e" in English, the same way that æ (as in "æsthetics") is often shortened to just "a" or just "e" ("asthetics" or "esthetics"). Completely irrelevent, obviously.

I done and figure once a lady done and pregnant that she be carryin' 'round her little babe.  You ever hear a mom say "feel the fetus kick"?  No you havent.  Its a baby.

You'd figure wrong.

I'll agree with you when you agree with me that soldiers "murder" each other in war.

[CrAz3D]

I'll agree with you when you agree with me that soldiers "murder" each other in war.

They kill each other.  Murder is a malicious crime.  SOME soldiers do murder, but war isnt murder.

[iago]

I'll agree with you when you agree with me that soldiers "murder" each other in war.

They kill each other.  Murder is a malicious crime.  SOME soldiers do murder, but war isnt murder.

And offspring in the womb are foetuses, not babies.

[CrAz3D]

I'll agree with you when you agree with me that soldiers "murder" each other in war.

They kill each other.  Murder is a malicious crime.  SOME soldiers do murder, but war isnt murder.

And offspring in the womb are foetuses, not babies.

Calling a fetus a baby is widely accepted.  Calling war murder isn't accepted by any sort of large portion of the population.

[Joe]

and boom, topic locked~

[iago]

I'll agree with you when you agree with me that soldiers "murder" each other in war.

They kill each other.  Murder is a malicious crime.  SOME soldiers do murder, but war isnt murder.

And offspring in the womb are foetuses, not babies.

Calling a fetus a baby is widely accepted.  Calling war murder isn't accepted by any sort of large portion of the population.

The two are equally accepted, as far as I'm concerned.

Locking this topic sucks, especially when there is active (and nearly on topic!) discussion happening!

[Joe]

Feel entirely free to split it, I don't mind. I just don't want to get the original topic started into something it shouldn't be.

[iago]

Feel entirely free to split it, I don't mind. I just don't want to get the original topic started into something it shouldn't be.

You mean that the discussion you started about the ethics of abortion became a discussion about the ethics of abortion? God forbid!

[Camel]

people who are pro-abortion (not going to call them "pro-choice", that terminology is retarded) don't believe that they ARE babies.

How do you figure? I'm not pro-abortion, in that I think it's wrong, but I'm pro-choice because I think it's even more wrong to impose my beliefs on others. This might make more sense when you consider that I'm a Libertarian. The exception to this rule is when the killing part puts society at risk - that is, it's wrong to let someone murder members of society. Whether or not you wish to consider abortion murder is irrelevant to my position, because I draw the line at a danger to society, which a fetus is most certainly not a member of.

Part of the reason that I'm a Libertarian is because it makes it much easier to say in black and white terms what I believe. I can't tell you whether or not a fetus is a baby, and subsequently whether killing one is an act of murder, but I can tell you that a fetus is not an integrated member of society. Therefore, I don't see any reason why I should have the right to tell someone they can't have an abortion, even if I was the father.

This might seem like a barbaric view of the situation - for example, a child that was born yesterday is not really a member of society either. Well, that's still in the gray area between definitely okay to abort and definitely not okay to abort. As I said, I'm personally against abortion, but I still wouldn't call that murder.

[Rule]

Part of the reason that I'm a Libertarian is because it makes it much easier to say in black and white terms what I believe.

So you (partly) choose your positions based on whether they are easy to explain?

[CrAz3D]

I'll agree with you when you agree with me that soldiers "murder" each other in war.

They kill each other.  Murder is a malicious crime.  SOME soldiers do murder, but war isnt murder.

And offspring in the womb are foetuses, not babies.

Calling a fetus a baby is widely accepted.  Calling war murder isn't accepted by any sort of large portion of the population.

The two are equally accepted, as far as I'm concerned.

Take an unbiased poll.  I'd bet good money that the majority of people you ask will say women carry babies and that soldiers do not murder.

[iago]

Take an unbiased poll.  I'd bet good money that the majority of people you ask will say women carry babies and that soldiers do not murder.

Whether or not that's true is irrelevant -- they're both loaded terms used to change the meaning of an argument.