US credit rating downgraded

[nslay]

Like armin suggested, your simpleton remark is rather applicable to your whole post(s).

I was mostly suggesting that "this whole debacle" was not "caused by the Tea Party and their simpleton views". The significant failure is that we find ourselves in a seemingly inescapable, ever-growing debt, which was caused by decades of ineptitude and poor policy of both Republicans and Democrats. Scapegoating the Tea Party is all too easy and narrow sighted.

I certainly agree with you about the cause. But their no-compromise attitude brought us to the brink of default or government shutdown. The scary thing is many of them don't care if their behavior gets them re-elected or not ... they're working primarily on their own ideology.

Myndfyre might be right that they're their attitude brought about deeper cuts. Although, I think we would have revenue in the deal (particularly the Bush tax cuts expired) if the Tea Party wasn't there.

EDIT:
I'm mispelling a lot lately :(

[CrAz3D]

Actually, lots of them did exactly what their constituents wanted...

Also, revenue increases can be considered at another time (they will be).  This was just an optimal time to accomplish as much cutting as possible.

[Newby]

What simply amazes me is things like this:

However, Obama's chief political strategist, David Axelrod, blamed the conservative tea party movement for the S&P downgrade, saying the linking of a necessary debt ceiling increase to political debate on spending cuts caused the gridlock cited by the ratings agency.

... Axelrod said, adding: "The fact of the matter is that this is essentially a tea party downgrade."

On the same program, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina disputed Axelrod's contention, arguing that "the tea party's not the problem" and "Washington was broken before they got here."

He blamed Obama for a failure of leadership, calling the president "a casual observer at a time when he needs to be fully engaged."

I love how the dipshits in charge just keep pointing fingers. "IT'S YOUR FAULT!" "NO, IT'S YOUR FAULT!"

How about they shut the fuck up and solve something? I wish I got paid as much as they do to bitch and whine and accomplish nothing.

And it's times like this that I wish I understood economics. But you really can't trust anyone to speak on behalf of the economy. Or on economics. It's amazing how so many different opinions on what to do/what will happen can resonate from people with a common educational background (one vested in econ) and yet they all still get paid to spout what essentially is an educated opinion.

(And the most frustrating thing in the world is when people start discussing economics or politics in a party setting. I don't discuss particles, physics, algorithms, mathematics, or anything else they find boring, why must they spout crap that's probably all incorrect and biased anyway?)

(And it's this subjectivity that is why I prefer physics and CS.)

[nslay]

Yeah, I saw those video snippets too. Blame doesn't matter much now.

[MyndFyre]

The thing about tax increases is that many of the tea party members know that they're the ones who get the shaft.

My wife and I are starting a new business next January.  If our projections are correct, we could be making over $250k in 2013 between my normal job, my consulting work, and that (we're expecting ~$35k in revenue, $5k in costs in 2012, and I'm figuring about $125k / $25k in 2013).  Now, if that all works out, I'd be inclined to hire some employees and quit my day job in 2014.  But the $250k mark is where the democrats want to put the tax cutoff for the highest tax line.  To be frank, I have been working 70-hour weeks or so to get my consulting done and start this business.  I want to be rewarded for that work.  But my reward is, congratulations, we're going to come in and steal more of your money.

Approximately 47% of Americans pay no taxes.  If you want more revenue, fine - make the tax code fair.  I guarantee you that the tea party would be happy with a flat, uniform tax rate, or a repeal of the income tax in favor of the Fair Tax (the federal ~18-20% sales tax).  

But don't say that *I* have to start paying more taxes because I've been successful, while half of the country isn't paying anything.  That isn't "fair," and the people who have no skin in the game (the people not paying taxes) are going to keep voting for the people who don't make them pay taxes, while continuing to raise the taxes of those paying taxes.  It inhibits people from being able to move upward in social class, which is ironic, because the demagogues in Washington want to always make the lower classes envious of the higher classes.

It's disgusting.

[nslay]

The thing about tax increases is that many of the tea party members know that they're the ones who get the shaft.

My wife and I are starting a new business next January.  If our projections are correct, we could be making over $250k in 2013 between my normal job, my consulting work, and that (we're expecting ~$35k in revenue, $5k in costs in 2012, and I'm figuring about $125k / $25k in 2013).  Now, if that all works out, I'd be inclined to hire some employees and quit my day job in 2014.  But the $250k mark is where the democrats want to put the tax cutoff for the highest tax line.  To be frank, I have been working 70-hour weeks or so to get my consulting done and start this business.  I want to be rewarded for that work.  But my reward is, congratulations, we're going to come in and steal more of your money.

Approximately 47% of Americans pay no taxes.  If you want more revenue, fine - make the tax code fair.  I guarantee you that the tea party would be happy with a flat, uniform tax rate, or a repeal of the income tax in favor of the Fair Tax (the federal ~18-20% sales tax).  

But don't say that *I* have to start paying more taxes because I've been successful, while half of the country isn't paying anything.  That isn't "fair," and the people who have no skin in the game (the people not paying taxes) are going to keep voting for the people who don't make them pay taxes, while continuing to raise the taxes of those paying taxes.  It inhibits people from being able to move upward in social class, which is ironic, because the demagogues in Washington want to always make the lower classes envious of the higher classes.

It's disgusting.

If there are cuts to entitlement programs, particularly those people have paid into their entire life, then I think you shouldn't have a problem paying the normal tax rate ... just let the Bush tax cuts expire. Even S&P thinks it's a swell idea!

Good luck with your business.

[MyndFyre]

My position on this is that I would be glad to pay into social security my entire life and not take any benefit from it as long as my kids won't have to pay into it. I am preparing for my retirement because I am a responsible adult. I don't need the government to tell me how to take care of myself.

[nslay]

My position on this is that I would be glad to pay into social security my entire life and not take any benefit from it as long as my kids won't have to pay into it. I am preparing for my retirement because I am a responsible adult. I don't need the government to tell me how to take care of myself.

Even responsible adults become disabled, lose their pension, or take enormous losses in their IRA (whether due to recessions or disasters).

Of course, those people are less successful than you and deserve to be homeless.

[nslay]

Looks like Democrats are planning to pull a Tea-Party on Medicare ... no comprises. More crap to come!

[deadly7]

Looks like Democrats are planning to pull a Tea-Party on Medicare ... no comprises. More crap to come!

Oh good. I'm glad we spend millions a year on drug addicts that go in to ER's because of vague undefinable symptoms and need to get a battery of tests in the off chance they have something fatal and would result in the doctor getting sued otherwise.

[CrAz3D]

Looks like Democrats are planning to pull a Tea-Party on Medicare ... no comprises. More crap to come!

Oh good. I'm glad we spend millions a year on drug addicts that go in to ER's because of vague undefinable symptoms and need to get a battery of tests in the off chance they have something fatal and would result in the doctor getting sued otherwise.

x2


I like the idea of turning Medicare into a voucher system.  If people see what they're paying, they won't be as likely to waste (it'll also likely kill a lot of those predatory companies that feed on confused old people).