Oh shiiiittt..........

[CrAz3D]

They done and let me an honest to God attorney. I found out today that I passed the New Mexico bar. Hells to the yeah.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[nslay]

They done and let me an honest to God attorney. I found out today that I passed the New Mexico bar. Hells to the yeah.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good job! We all know you worked very hard! Congratulations! I'd buy you a beer, only I'm not anywhere near NM ...

[CrAz3D]

They done and let me an honest to God attorney. I found out today that I passed the New Mexico bar. Hells to the yeah.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good job! We all know you worked very hard! Congratulations! I'd buy you a beer, only I'm not anywhere near NM ...

re: school.........sometimes yes and sometimes no. lol. Bar exam prep...I worked hard as fuck. I kinda wonder what my numbers are compared to the rest of the testers.

[nslay]

They done and let me an honest to God attorney. I found out today that I passed the New Mexico bar. Hells to the yeah.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good job! We all know you worked very hard! Congratulations! I'd buy you a beer, only I'm not anywhere near NM ...

re: school.........sometimes yes and sometimes no. lol. Bar exam prep...I worked hard as fuck. I kinda wonder what my numbers are compared to the rest of the testers.

It doesn't matter. Only the threshold matters.

[CrAz3D]

Indeed. One my school's biggest grads usually opens presentations (to us) with "I was a straight C student." Now, he is worth a few hundred million, has been named one of the best trial attorneys in the US, and donated enough cash to double the size of TTU law. On top of all that, he teaches a crazy-popular Sunday school. He has built, if I'm not mistaken, the largest US private Christian library. His Christmas parties have headliners that include Sting. ...................Sting.

I saw his first Lubbock trial last fall. He was damn good (to say the very least).

[Rule]

Indeed. One my school's biggest grads usually opens presentations (to us) with "I was a straight C student." Now, he is worth a few hundred million

In my own life I've often noticed a pattern of poor students, mostly drop-outs actually, sometimes even run-aways, later becoming wealthy business owners.  I've recently heard people say that this is an old model though -- part of an "American dream" that is not achievable like it used to be.  I'm not sure... I don't really have any reason to believe things have changed in this way.

Money and 'success' aside, I do think it's true that those who can make the greatest intellectual contributions will not always perform well in a conventional system.  Often they're too passionate and driven to form their own direction to care about what other people tell them is important.  And indeed many geniuses did not get particularly good grades.    But I wonder if there are many unrecognized geniuses for this very reason -- they aren't impressive by conventional standards -- and the geniuses we do know about (who did poorly in school, etc.) were just exceptionally lucky to be supported by some influential people.

[nslay]

Indeed. One my school's biggest grads usually opens presentations (to us) with "I was a straight C student." Now, he is worth a few hundred million

In my own life I've often noticed a pattern of poor students, mostly drop-outs actually, sometimes even run-aways, later becoming wealthy business owners.  I've recently heard people say that this is an old model though -- part of an "American dream" that is not achievable like it used to be.  I'm not sure... I don't really have any reason to believe things have changed in this way.

Money and 'success' aside, I do think it's true that those who can make the greatest intellectual contributions will not always perform well in a conventional system.  Often they're too passionate and driven to form their own direction to care about what other people tell them is important.  And indeed many geniuses did not get particularly good grades.    But I wonder if there are many unrecognized geniuses for this very reason -- they aren't impressive by conventional standards -- and the geniuses we do know about (who did poorly in school, etc.) were just exceptionally lucky to be supported by some influential people.

rohitab.com's discussion board is filled with these kinds of people. Especially foreigners. They're your typical high school kid who can write an operating system, implement AES, etc... who either have no desire to attend university or even realize they can be paid to do that sort of work. Maybe not geniuses, but certainly very intelligent ...

[CrAz3D]

While there are probably a lot more capable students earning average grades than we hear about, I'd still bet money on the C students being mostly just lackluster students.

it all does kinda make you go hmmmmm in re the system, though.

[Rule]

I'd still bet money on the C students being mostly just lackluster students.

Yes, I'd agree.  But on the other hand, it might also be a reasonable bet that most geniuses receive poor grades.   Certainly a surprising number do.

The system hugely values conformity.  I remember in high school, I figured out I could get good grades in a given class by playing to the teacher's own idiosyncrasies, especially in humanities subjects.  I remember English teachers in particular would always have their own special pet peeves and likes,
and as long as you took note of these, and basically agreed with them, then you would probably do well.  Sometimes I thought the teacher's priorities were stupid, but if I didn't pretend like they were important, I would be penalized.

Although it seems like this wouldn't apply to the maths and sciences, it was also true in these classes, to a lesser extent.   It just wasn't something you had as much control over.  For example, one math teacher might hugely penalize careless mistakes, but not give out very difficult problems.  So you had to be really meticulous with trivial arithmetic, etc.  Another math teacher might challenge students more , but would not severely penalize trivial mechanical errors.   You can get used to the priorities of the teacher, and then adapt.

But I find that often people who are really creative and passionate are less likely to submit to a teacher's wishes, and are more likely to be 'in their own world'.  Of course, I'm just talking about probabilities.  Creative people could still, on the whole, be willing to please authority.

[Sidoh]

I'd still bet money on the C students being mostly just lackluster students.

Yes, I'd agree.  But on the other hand, it might also be a reasonable bet that most geniuses receive poor grades.   Certainly a surprising number do.

The most industrious geniuses probably don't waste time earning grades (good or bad) as soon as they see an opportunity. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, Elon Musk dropped out of a PhD program at Stanford two days after he started, and so on.

[CrAz3D]

ugh @ flashback to 10th grade English, where the teacher had some weird obsession with symbolism. Recognizing her preference was easy; playing to her preference was just plain annoying.

[Rule]

I remember an 11th grade English teacher who would always talk about the "human condition".  His philosophical asides were interesting, but it seemed like to get a good grade you would have to apply his own, rather unusual, filter to literature.

In 12th grade English I had a teacher who was obsessed with connectives and flow in writing.  At first it did seem rather contrived: brilliant, stimulating, creative writing that was not full of explicit connectives would get a B, whereas rather contrived boiler-plate writing would at least get an A-, as long as it was very obvious about linking sentences and paragraphs together with explicit connectives.  At first I found this really annoying, because it didn't seem like the grading correlated well with some overall 'objective' quality in the work.  In retrospect, though, I have to say it was probably the most useful English class I ever had.  Even though the grading was a bit unfair, it was a good pedagogical exercise that made me think more formally about writing structure, which ultimately gave me more control over the quality of my writing.  I found before I would sometimes produce great writing and other times poor writing, and it felt like I had little control over the quality.  There was nothing reproducible about what I was doing.  I now look for things that I wasn't explicitly looking for before.  Now, even if I'm not feeling inspired, I can at least craft something that will be half decent, if I put enough effort into it.

In first year university I had the same English prof for two semesters.  With her it was all about the appearance of effort to adjust to her requirements.  At first you would, at best, get an A-.  If you visited her at office hours, and placed importance on her wishes, and appeared to progressively adapt your writing style to suit her priorities, you would get an A or an A+.

[nslay]

I'd still bet money on the C students being mostly just lackluster students.

Yes, I'd agree.  But on the other hand, it might also be a reasonable bet that most geniuses receive poor grades.   Certainly a surprising number do.

The most industrious geniuses probably don't waste time earning grades (good or bad) as soon as they see an opportunity. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, Elon Musk dropped out of a PhD program at Stanford two days after he started, and so on.

I don't think Bill Gates or Elon Musk are geniuses. But I do think Tesla would serve as a better example. He had no university education at all and made huge discoveries in E&M.  Tesla is indubitably a genius.

EDIT:
Oh apparently I'm wrong. He studied for at least two years.

[Sidoh]

I'd still bet money on the C students being mostly just lackluster students.

Yes, I'd agree.  But on the other hand, it might also be a reasonable bet that most geniuses receive poor grades.   Certainly a surprising number do.

The most industrious geniuses probably don't waste time earning grades (good or bad) as soon as they see an opportunity. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, Elon Musk dropped out of a PhD program at Stanford two days after he started, and so on.

I don't think Bill Gates or Elon Musk are geniuses. But I do think Tesla would serve as a better example. He had no university education at all and made huge discoveries in E&M.  Tesla is indubitably a genius.

EDIT:
Oh apparently I'm wrong. He studied for at least two years.

My definition of genius is almost certainly than yours, then. Academic geniuses often fail to impress me more than Elon Musk.

I'm not comparing Elon Musk to Nikila Tesla. Tesla was probably a once-in-a-century kind of mind. Elon Musk is a brilliant visionary who has the courage to execute on crazy plans that no one else does.

[nslay]

My definition of genius is almost certainly than yours, then. Academic geniuses often fail to impress me more than Elon Musk.

I'm not comparing Elon Musk to Nikila Tesla. Tesla was probably a once-in-a-century kind of mind. Elon Musk is a brilliant visionary who has the courage to execute on crazy plans that no one else does.

Fair enough. Elon Musk is certainly a brilliant entrepreneur. However, had Zip2 failed, he may not be the visionary you know him to be.

Or, had Xerox PARC commercialized their desktop computing environment, you may not even know who Bill Gates or Steve Jobs are.

Where would these guys be if they were part of the 90% of start-ups that failed? What really differentiates Steve Jobs, Bill Gates or Elon Musk from anyone else? Maybe you (Sidoh) could build yourself up as a visionary with $22 million too.

Ah, but Tesla can speak 8 languages and memorize entire books and he put those abilities to good use to make some big discoveries in E&M. With a combination of a physiologically superior brain and good use of it, he is absolutely a genius. And you're right, there are unfortunately only a handful of these types of people per century ... I would expect geniuses to be exceedingly rare.