Morals and Ethics

[MyndFyre]

I disagree with that.  I think that if religion had never been invented, morals would still exist.  But it's hard to prove that. 

I think it's not to hard to prove.

Liberalism (the theory, a la John Locke, not American Democrats' liberalism) was based on Christian principles.  *HOWEVER*, it's a reasonable theory.

One of the core foundations of it is that when we live in the state of nature, we have no rules governing our behavior (no morals, no laws).  We enter into a social contract with others to leave the state of nature because we realize that it is more effective, more efficient, and more beneficial for more people to work together and govern themselves under a certain set of laws.  These laws include that no man can be deprived of the rights to life, liberty, or property.  Moral judgments in a secular state derive from these rights.

[Eric]

IMO, morality stems from religion, what an individuals religion teaches them to be right and wrong defines the individuals morals.  Therefore a person with _no_ religion would have no morals.

I strongly disagree with you here. I have no religion, yet I'm always trying to decide for myself what is right and what is wrong.

You may personally have no religion, but the society you were brought up in does, and a lot of our principles do (look at the 10 commandments.. religious or not, everybody in this half of the world follows them)

People pick and choose which rules of religion to follow and then procede to use those rules to persuade others into their way of thinking.  Socitey defines religion; religion doesn't define society.

[Sidoh]

People pick and choose which rules of religion to follow and then procede to use those rules to persuade others into their way of thinking.  Socitey defines religion; religion doesn't define society.

Do you think so?  I don't.  I don't think America would be the same if the founding fathers created the laws based on Christian values and morals.  Those laws often define the morals for people born into the country and at least provide a default set of morals that they could or should have.

[iago]

People pick and choose which rules of religion to follow and then procede to use those rules to persuade others into their way of thinking.  Socitey defines religion; religion doesn't define society.

Do you think so?  I don't.  I don't think America would be the same if the founding fathers created the laws based on Christian values and morals.  Those laws often define the morals for people born into the country and at least provide a default set of morals that they could or should have.

I agree with Sidoh.  It works both ways.  Religion definitely defines society. 

[Newby]

Socitey defines religion; religion doesn't define society.

The only way society defines religion is in the public view on a religion. If a group of religious fanatics start killing everyone, they're giving that religion a bad picture, and in a sense, defining it in the public eye as being a bad religion.

Religion, however, affects many aspects of life, if not short of all aspects. Religion affects those in society and sometimes becomes so huge it affects society and laws.

[Chavo]

I would agree that religin and society influence each other.  I would also agree that at some points in history religion has defined society or vice versa depending on your point of view.  I would disagree that their is an inherent defining role either way.

[Sidoh]

I would agree that religin and society influence each other.  I would also agree that at some points in history religion has defined society or vice versa depending on your point of view.  I would disagree that their is an inherent defining role either way.

That's probably the best view I've heard.  I think it's normally religion that defines society, but I can certainly think of cases where it is society that defines religion (namely acient Rome / Greece -- I'd say, anyway).

[d&q]

What exactly do you mean by define? From a secular standpoint, most religions were created to explain incomprehensible events. It's pretty obvious that you can't have religion without society, as if a religion has only be followed by one person, most people would not call it a religion.

[Furious]

Religion has nothing to do with a persons moral standing, like Deuce said: "...most religions were created to explain incomprehensible events.,"  I'm religious in NO way, I've never been in a church, opened a bible, been in any type of religious temple, so that makes me immoral?  Ethics is something you learn throughout life, for someone to be ethical they must realize what is happening in the world around them and be able to contemplate the situation and see what is wrong, or right.  Ethics follow in the footsteps of a person morals, each person is born with morals, whether they are right or wrong determines what kind of life this person will live.  Not one person in this world is moral or ethical, because if they were, we wouldn't have the problems that we do, we would all be one big unified society.

[leet_muffin]

I just realized that I can do almost all the studying for my finals on x86 forums.

So far I've got english down. http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,4472.msg49597.html#msg49597
and math. http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,2823.msg49938.html#msg49938
and (see above) history.
I do need to work on spanish a bit... so if somebody would start a post discussing the border, that would be great. (I'm kidding about spanish, that class sucks.)

[Sidoh]

What exactly do you mean by define? From a secular standpoint, most religions were created to explain incomprehensible events. It's pretty obvious that you can't have religion without society, as if a religion has only be followed by one person, most people would not call it a religion.

You form a religion, you have followers.  The number of followers you have grows.  You form a society based on your beliefs.  There, done.

Religions almost always have some element of the super-natural in them (God, spirits, etc), but that doesn't mean they stop there.  Most religions extend themselves far past that.  The Ten Commandments is a good representation of this.

Religion has nothing to do with a persons moral standing, like Deuce said: "...most religions were created to explain incomprehensible events.,"  I'm religious in NO way, I've never been in a church, opened a bible, been in any type of religious temple, so that makes me immoral?  Ethics is something you learn throughout life, for someone to be ethical they must realize what is happening in the world around them and be able to contemplate the situation and see what is wrong, or right.  Ethics follow in the footsteps of a person morals, each person is born with morals, whether they are right or wrong determines what kind of life this person will live.  Not one person in this world is moral or ethical, because if they were, we wouldn't have the problems that we do, we would all be one big unified society.

Just because you're not religious doesn't mean you don't have religious morals.  You may not consider them religious, but I do.

I just realized that I can do almost all the studying for my finals on x86 forums.

So far I've got english down. http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,4472.msg49597.html#msg49597
and math. http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,2823.msg49938.html#msg49938
and (see above) history.
I do need to work on spanish a bit... so if somebody would start a post discussing the border, that would be great. (I'm kidding about spanish, that class sucks.)

That's what you get for hanging around nerds.

[leet_muffin]

I just realized that I can do almost all the studying for my finals on x86 forums.

So far I've got english down. http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,4472.msg49597.html#msg49597
and math. http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,2823.msg49938.html#msg49938
and (see above) history.
I do need to work on spanish a bit... so if somebody would start a post discussing the border, that would be great. (I'm kidding about spanish, that class sucks.)

That's what you get for hanging around nerds.

I like it.

[Chavo]

Religion has nothing to do with a persons moral standing, like Deuce said: "...most religions were created to explain incomprehensible events.,"  I'm religious in NO way, I've never been in a church, opened a bible, been in any type of religious temple, so that makes me immoral?  Ethics is something you learn throughout life, for someone to be ethical they must realize what is happening in the world around them and be able to contemplate the situation and see what is wrong, or right.  Ethics follow in the footsteps of a person morals, each person is born with morals, whether they are right or wrong determines what kind of life this person will live.  Not one person in this world is moral or ethical, because if they were, we wouldn't have the problems that we do, we would all be one big unified society.

You still misunderstand me I think.  Lack of religion (agnosticism is a religion too, btw :)) does not make you immoral (Contrary to established moral principles); it makes you amoral (Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral).

[Hitmen]

Religion has not shaped my morals. Killing, raping, pillaging, are all mearly passtimes in the world of Hitmen. I feel bad for those of you with your minds clouded by these fools telling you it's "wrong" to beat someone to death with a wedge of cheese, rip out their intestines with a spoon, and then rape them.

[Newby]

Remember kids: eat then rape the remains, never rape then eat the remains. [size=0pt]And I wonder why I'm single...[/size]