Author Topic: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista  (Read 72300 times)

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Offline iago

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2006, 09:32:41 pm »
What's wrong with that?  Linux has expanded UNIX.  Think of UNIX as Windows 98 and Linux as Windows Vista.  They're both under the GPL license; what's wrong with expanding on a brother project?  That's the point of open source development.  Open source developers want their code to be used.
Actually, not quite true.  The reason Linux was started is because UNIX, over the 20 years before, was becoming too commercial and that was killing it.  Linux was a re-implementation of UNIX, which is also compliant with the same standards (ISO, POSIX, etc.) except with a new licensing scheme which demanded non-commercialism.

Offline Sidoh

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2006, 09:36:02 pm »
Actually, not quite true.  The reason Linux was started is because UNIX, over the 20 years before, was becoming too commercial and that was killing it.  Linux was a re-implementation of UNIX, which is also compliant with the same standards (ISO, POSIX, etc.) except with a new licensing scheme which demanded non-commercialism.

Hehe, thanks for clearing that up then. :)

Offline Warrior

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2006, 09:37:10 pm »
That would be believable if Linux wasn't a total rip off Unix.

What's wrong with that?  Linux has expanded UNIX.  Think of UNIX as Windows 98 and Linux as Windows Vista.  They're both under the GPL license; what's wrong with expanding on a brother project?  That's the point of open source development.  Open source developers want their code to be used.

Then the features weren't "Exclusive to Linux" also Microsoft licensed Unix sourcecode back in the day.

No, those people are coding for themselves. No one sensible uses Linux, so the "Greater" good isn't as "Great" as most may think.
I'd call it coding for the "Select few individuals too poor to buy Windows"

Bullshit!  Do you even understand what the "Greater good" we're referring to is?  When programming first became popular, everyone shared code.  They all publicly provided their work so that it could be used to accelerate the programming community's advancement pace.  It worked extremely well.  If every piece of software was corporate, people would continually have to "re-invent the wheel," so to speak.  Obviously, this is not the case.  There are tons of open source projects.  If you're starting a project and you want to implement a specific feature that's already been created, you can simply learn from the source that's been provided for you.  That's a damned awesome "Greater good."

Wow that was moving..not. There is no money in that, a bunch of saps sharing source code..woopty do.

I've explained this multiple times, I'm starting to think you either have a reading problem or just chose to completely ignore me.

I'm starting to think the same about you.  I've explained why I believe what I do.  I've continually rejected your rationale, so you conclude that I'm not understanding what you're saying?  For some odd reason, this brings on a strange sense of deja vou.

Yea, nice job of dodging the argument. Next time you may want to take some time out of the time you claim to take in writing your SO WELL THOUGHT OUT responses to actually do something.

I'm not talking about UI. I'm talking about DESKTOP usability which is not limited to the UI, but functionality driving the UI.
You're saying I'm talking about the UI..seems to me you're  doing most of that here.

You need to be more clear then.  Even in your rationalization, you're confusing functionality with usability.

Ironic, I remember once upon a time you werent so clear yourself..yet you still left it up to me to interpret. Maybe you're one of those things you hate most right?

Neither am I, Windows has multiple things which are more stable than Linux could ever want. Windows supports more drivers and knows more trade secrets than Linux will ever have. That makes them the superior OS, that makes them more powerful, that is what seperates the good OS from the shitty ancient OS.

Name a few, please.  Windows has "auto-detecting" driver engines, which are pretty useless.  The device works crappily until you install the correct drivers.  Linux doesn't provide that short time of limited functionality, but I have little doubt that with a bit of searching, you'll find a comparable driver.  What kind of "trade secrets" are you talking about?  Riddle me this, Warrior: why do the most world renowned physicists, theorists and scientists publish their work?  So that the world can understand their findings.  So that humanity can progress.  So people don't have to discover what they've found after it's already been done.  This is the idea behind open source.  I think it's a phenomenal idea.

I don't care about some lame physicst. I'm talking about trade secrets such as hardware specifications which they are not allowed to distribute by law. Hundreds of specifications to drivers is what I'm talking about.

I don't know if I have said this before: Open source is lame, I don't care how phenomenal you think it is, it as no application in the real world, won't make me money, thus it's irrelevant.

Then they have no room to insult how Windows goes about doing things when them as an OS couldnt' do the same.

Sure they do.  There are lots of things I wish Windows did differently.  These issues can be discussed if needed, but I'm pretty sure they're intuitively obvious given Window's history on security and stability issues.

I'd like to see them do better. Never mind they are busy being Open source and coding for the greater whatever it is you guys call that dumb shit you do anyhow.

No.

I have to do this again? :(  *sigh*

www.m-w.com :

Quote
Main Entry: 1rev·o·lu·tion·ary
Pronunciation: -sh&-"ner-E
Function: adjective
1 a : of, relating to, or constituting a revolution <revolutionary war> b : tending to or promoting revolution <a revolutionary party> c : constituting or bringing about a major or fundamental change <revolutionary styling> <a revolutionary new product>

Note the bolded definition.  This is the one that Windows is referring to when it claims that one of its features is "revolutionary."  How can something be revolutionary if it's already been done?  It can't be.

Okay I hate to treat you like an idiot since you're smart but I'm going to have to.

Windows (Microsoft's OS)
says (Meaning claims or speaks)
things as revolutionary (The big word you went through the trouble of looking up)
which apply to (Meaning are relevant to)
Windows (Microsoft's OS)
thus it is perfectly logical (It makes sense)
to call it revolutionary (The big word you went through the trouble of looking up)

Get it?

No they don't, you just think they do thus yours rely heavily on the UI, not mine. I'm not talking about the desktop enviroment, I'm talking about the desktop EXPERIENCE which means functionality, support for drivers, ease of use, etc..
Something Linux in it's unstable state cannot provide.

That seems pretty synonymous with UI features to me (other than the driver functionality).  Ease of use is irrelevant in a functionality argument, if you ask me.  If some feature can be learned through means of experience, then ease of use isn't very important.  I've already argued a rational point on Linux and drivers.  Linux is not unstable:

Of COURSE IT is...you just have your head shoved so far up OSS and Torvald's ass you can't see that.
[/quote]
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling

Offline Sidoh

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2006, 09:53:25 pm »
Then the features weren't "Exclusive to Linux" also Microsoft licensed Unix sourcecode back in the day.

Personally, I don't claim any of the features in Linux are or were exclusive to it.  I think arguing such points is pretty useless.  Don't accuse me of doing so.

Wow that was moving..not. There is no money in that, a bunch of saps sharing source code..woopty do.

To retort that, I'll quote myself:

Riddle me this, Warrior: why do the most world renowned physicists, theorists and scientists publish their work?  So that the world can understand their findings.  So that humanity can progress.  So people don't have to discover what they've found after it's already been done.  This is the idea behind open source.  I think it's a phenomenal idea.

What's wrong with wanting computer science to progress at a faster rate in stead of greedily wanting to fill your pocket?

Yea, nice job of dodging the argument. Next time you may want to take some time out of the time you claim to take in writing your SO WELL THOUGHT OUT responses to actually do something.

Warrior: you're accusing me of what you're guilty of.  I retorted perfectly fine and precisely relating to your argument.  I didn't dodge anything other than you being correct.

Ironic, I remember once upon a time you werent so clear yourself..yet you still left it up to me to interpret. Maybe you're one of those things you hate most right?

Intuitively, I assume that you are talking about the UI when you explicitly refer to the desktop environment.  Sure, it indirectly and non-intuitively entails other sorts of features, but that doesn't mean I should automatically understand what you're talking about.

I don't care about some lame physicst. I'm talking about trade secrets such as hardware specifications which they are not allowed to distribute by law. Hundreds of specifications to drivers is what I'm talking about.

You don't care about some lame physicist?  If it wasn't for physicists like Isaac Newton, you wouldn't be at a computer right now.  Calculus wouldn't exist; technology would be vastly less advanced.  I see no problem in relating the works of physicists and theorists with the work of computer scientists.  In fact, I see a direct correlation.

I don't know if I have said this before: Open source is lame, I don't care how phenomenal you think it is, it as no application in the real world, won't make me money, thus it's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because you don't care about it?  That is an absolutely, completely, amazingly unwise, unjustified and blind statement.  Saying there is no use for open source is like saying you wish that you couldn't learn anything in school through the work of others.

I'd like to see them do better. Never mind they are busy being Open source and coding for the greater whatever it is you guys call that dumb shit you do anyhow.

Actually, coding for the greater good (open source) takes vast amounts of time less than it does to code for a corporate cause.  When you're coding for money, you have to take security measures.  You have to obfuscate your libraries, spend vast amounts of time coding and implement validation and verification procedures and implementing other features to make sure users are legally obtaining your software.  When you code open source, you don't care about any of that!  You upload the source and let the users do what they want with it.  Also, if you'd like to see them do better, perhaps you should try Linux again.  They already have.

Okay I hate to treat you like an idiot since you're smart but I'm going to have to.

Windows (Microsoft's OS)
says (Meaning claims or speaks)
things as revolutionary (The big word you went through the trouble of looking up)
which apply to (Meaning are relevant to)
Windows (Microsoft's OS)
thus it is perfectly logical (It makes sense)
to call it revolutionary (The big word you went through the trouble of looking up)

Get it?

No, it's not.  For the last time, claiming something is revolutionary when it's previously been done is stupid.  As iago said, when you call something revolutionary, you imply that it is new to the world; that it has never, ever been done before in any shape or fashion.  The point of a revolution is that it provides some type of new knowledge to the world -- not re-implements knowledge that has already been provided.  I'm glad you decided to treat me like an idiot when you're obviously misunderstanding the entire point of this argument.  You're simply ignoring the fact that calling something revolutionary implies that it has never been done before anywhere in the world.

Of COURSE IT is...you just have your head shoved so far up OSS and Torvald's ass you can't see that.

Are you that uninformed?  I use Windows as my main desktop environment.  As I told unTactical:

Just to make sure this issue is clear: I'm no sort of zealot for any OS.  I mainly use Windows on my computer.  I recognize that it has its flaws, but I find that they're bearable enough to use over Linux on my main computer.  Windows is what I grew up with; it's what I'm used to.  For this reason, I'm more comfortable using Windows on my main computer than Linux.  However, I have a remarkable level of respect for Linux and what it can do.  For this reason, my server (and my other hard drive on my main computer) has Linux on it. :)

How is Linux unstable?  The uptime for the server I showed you was almost a year.  I've never seen a Windows box that has functioned for that long.

Offline iago

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2006, 09:55:46 pm »
Ah, I see the entire problem:

I don't know if I have said this before: Open source is lame, I don't care how phenomenal you think it is, it as no application in the real world, won't make me money, thus it's irrelevant.

I care about more than money.  I guess if your personal world is driven by the quest for money, then of course open source is bad.  Mine isn't. 

When I help an old lady put groceries in her car, I don't ask her for money.  I'm doing it to be nice. 

When I deliver Christmas hampers to needy families, I'm not trying to earn money.  In fact, I'm losing money on gas. But I'm doing it to be nice. 

When I did lighting for my school's play, it wasn't for money.  It was to help out. 

I consider open-source to be volunteer work.  I always have.  But if you're against the idea of working for free, then I understand why you wouldn't support open source. 

Offline Sidoh

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2006, 09:58:23 pm »
I consider open-source to be volunteer work.  I always have.  But if you're against the idea of working for free, then I understand why you wouldn't support open source. 

If you overlook the fact that computer science is a delicately progressing field by wanting nothing more than riches out of it, I'd say you're pretty uninsightful.  That's my personal opinion.

Offline Warrior

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2006, 10:01:24 pm »
Then the features weren't "Exclusive to Linux" also Microsoft licensed Unix sourcecode back in the day.

Personally, I don't claim any of the features in Linux are or were exclusive to it.  I think arguing such points is pretty useless.  Don't accuse me of doing so.

They implement...obvious features..none exclusive to Linux itself.

They have implemented features that were exclusive to Linux until they implemented them.

Whatever would give me that idea.

Wow that was moving..not. There is no money in that, a bunch of saps sharing source code..woopty do.

To retort that, I'll quote myself:

Riddle me this, Warrior: why do the most world renowned physicists, theorists and scientists publish their work?  So that the world can understand their findings.  So that humanity can progress.  So people don't have to discover what they've found after it's already been done.  This is the idea behind open source.  I think it's a phenomenal idea.

What's wrong with wanting computer science to progress at a faster rate in stead of greedily wanting to fill your pocket?

I don't make money, that's what's wrong.

Ironic, I remember once upon a time you werent so clear yourself..yet you still left it up to me to interpret. Maybe you're one of those things you hate most right?

Intuitively, I assume that you are talking about the UI when you explicitly refer to the desktop environment.  Sure, it indirectly and non-intuitively entails other sorts of features, but that doesn't mean I should automatically understand what you're talking about.

Wrong, I'm talking about the XP activation thread. May want to look back.

I don't care about some lame physicst. I'm talking about trade secrets such as hardware specifications which they are not allowed to distribute by law. Hundreds of specifications to drivers is what I'm talking about.

You don't care about some lame physicist?  If it wasn't for physicists like Isaac Newton, you wouldn't be at a computer right now.  Calculus wouldn't exist; technology would be vastly less advanced.  I see no problem in relating the works of physicists and theorists with the work of computer scientists.  In fact, I see a direct correlation.

Not in an argument about Linux and Windows.

I don't know if I have said this before: Open source is lame, I don't care how phenomenal you think it is, it as no application in the real world, won't make me money, thus it's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because you don't care about it?  That is an absolutely, completely, amazingly unwise, unjustified and blind statement.  Saying there is no use for open source is like saying you wish that you couldn't learn anything in school through the work of others.

Not true, documentation exists.

I'd like to see them do better. Never mind they are busy being Open source and coding for the greater whatever it is you guys call that dumb shit you do anyhow.

Actually, coding for the greater good (open source) takes vast amounts of time less than it does to code for a corporate cause.  When you're coding for money, you have to take security measures.  You have to obfuscate your libraries, spend vast amounts of time coding and implement validation and verification procedures and implementing other features to make sure users are legally obtaining your software.  When you code open source, you don't care about any of that!  You upload the source and let the users do what they want with it.  Also, if you'd like to see them do better, perhaps you should try Linux again.  They already have.

Oh sorry if corporate programming makes you actually program well..sorry..

Okay I hate to treat you like an idiot since you're smart but I'm going to have to.

Windows (Microsoft's OS)
says (Meaning claims or speaks)
things as revolutionary (The big word you went through the trouble of looking up)
which apply to (Meaning are relevant to)
Windows (Microsoft's OS)
thus it is perfectly logical (It makes sense)
to call it revolutionary (The big word you went through the trouble of looking up)

Get it?

No, it's not.  For the last time, claiming something is revolutionary when it's previously been done is stupid.  As iago said, when you call something revolutionary, you imply that it is new to the world; that it has never, ever been done before in any shape or fashion.  The point of a revolution is that it provides some type of new knowledge to the world -- not re-implements knowledge that has already been provided.  I'm glad you decided to treat me like an idiot when you're obviously misunderstanding the entire point of this argument.  You're simply ignoring the fact that calling something revolutionary implies that it has never been done before anywhere in the world.

Calling something revolutionary in the way they use it implies revolutionary to Windows users, who like me could care less for Linux.
Maybe all that time staring at a blank shell has fried your brains.

Of COURSE IT is...you just have your head shoved so far up OSS and Torvald's ass you can't see that.

Are you that uninformed?  I use Windows as my main desktop environment.  As I told unTactical:

Just to make sure this issue is clear: I'm no sort of zealot for any OS.  I mainly use Windows on my computer.  I recognize that it has its flaws, but I find that they're bearable enough to use over Linux on my main computer.  Windows is what I grew up with; it's what I'm used to.  For this reason, I'm more comfortable using Windows on my main computer than Linux.  However, I have a remarkable level of respect for Linux and what it can do.  For this reason, my server (and my other hard drive on my main computer) has Linux on it. :)

You seem to be uninformed, there are plenty of other OSes more secure than Linux. Still Linux users seem to treat it like the next big thing, the best thing since me and they talk as if it's actually able to compete with Windows on any level.
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling

Offline linuxisnotcool

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2006, 10:03:14 pm »
i dont support open source because its not as buggy and thus less vulnerable. yes folks i like exploitable programs. anyways, uhm, like i said before: linux is sloppy.

\\\"Fuck Linux, Open Your Eyes to a Wider Range of Operating Systems\\\"

All Linux buffs are biased.

Offline Sidoh

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2006, 10:09:41 pm »
Whatever would give me that idea.

Maybe the fact that you're accusing me?

I don't make money, that's what's wrong.

That's the only way you can make money? :(

Not in an argument about Linux and Windows.

So then I can't use points that don't directly relate to this argument?  Arguing without analogies and metaphors would be a difficult task, Warrior.

Not true, documentation exists.

Not for "revolutionary" features. ;)

Oh sorry if corporate programming makes you actually program well..sorry..

That is a completely invalid generalization.

Calling something revolutionary in the way they use it implies revolutionary to Windows users, who like me could care less for Linux.
Maybe all that time staring at a blank shell has fried your brains.

Ugh.  *hits head*.  For the last time, we're saying calling something "revolutionary" is misleading because it implies that it is on a global scale, and it is.

Of COURSE IT is...you just have your head shoved so far up OSS and Torvald's ass you can't see that.

Are you that uninformed?  I use Windows as my main desktop environment.  As I told unTactical:

You seem to be uninformed, there are plenty of other OSes more secure than Linux. Still Linux users seem to treat it like the next big thing, the best thing since me and they talk as if it's actually able to compete with Windows on any level.

If they're more secure than Linux, they're more secure than Windows.  They've got my vote.

i dont support open source because its not as buggy and thus less vulnerable. yes folks i like exploitable programs. anyways, uhm, like i said before: linux is sloppy.

Idiot.  I'll stop there.

\\\"Fuck Linux, Open Your Eyes to a Wider Range of Operating Systems\\\"

I'd say the same to "Windows buffs."

All Linux buffs are biased.

Another crappy, untrue generalization.  Seriously, do you think we're stupid enough to believe that?

Offline linuxisnotcool

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2006, 10:12:50 pm »
ok, this is what really puts the turd in the bucket... Linux\\\'s code. Contributed by everyone, and thus sometimes coded by morons who have semi-decent ideas, but can\\\'t code well enough to securely and neatly implement the idea lol

Offline Sidoh

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2006, 10:15:10 pm »
ok, this is what really puts the turd in the bucket... Linux\\\'s code. Contributed by everyone, and thus sometimes coded by morons who have semi-decent ideas, but can\\\'t code well enough to securely and neatly implement the idea lol

If that's the case, it's recognized, recoded and replaced.  Even if this doesn't happen, the nature of Linux allows you to do it yourself or seek a third party fix for it.  When Windows does something sloppily (don't dare argue that it doesn't -- there are loads of areas that Windows is sloppy in), you're screwed.

Remeber: Windows is coded by people too.  The people may have met some sort of qualification when they were hired to work at Microsoft, but that does not mean that their code will always meet the standards that are expected.

Offline Warrior

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2006, 10:19:00 pm »
Whatever would give me that idea.

Maybe the fact that you're accusing me?

Actually READ what I responded and you'll see where my accusation came from..you said it yourself..I don't get you.

I don't make money, that's what's wrong.

That's the only way you can make money? :(

No, if I don't make it then I'm losing it. My time is money.

Not in an argument about Linux and Windows.

So then I can't use points that don't directly relate to this argument?  Arguing without analogies and metaphors would be a difficult task, Warrior.

It would help if the analogies and metaphors even remotely related to the argument meaning, actually made sense.
Physicists documented their work, open source only applies where documentation is an alternative.

Not true, documentation exists.

Not for "revolutionary" features. ;)

What?

Oh sorry if corporate programming makes you actually program well..sorry..

That is a completely invalid generalization.

Hey, thats what you said in a shorter sentence form. You basically gave Linux an excuse to suck, because
it uses Open source. smooth move.

Calling something revolutionary in the way they use it implies revolutionary to Windows users, who like me could care less for Linux.
Maybe all that time staring at a blank shell has fried your brains.

Ugh.  *hits head*.  For the last time, we're saying calling something "revolutionary" is misleading because it implies that it is on a global scale, and it is.

If YOU misinterpret it, don't blame Microsoft for you using Linux.

Of COURSE IT is...you just have your head shoved so far up OSS and Torvald's ass you can't see that.

Are you that uninformed?  I use Windows as my main desktop environment.  As I told unTactical:

You seem to be uninformed, there are plenty of other OSes more secure than Linux. Still Linux users seem to treat it like the next big thing, the best thing since me and they talk as if it's actually able to compete with Windows on any level.

If they're more secure than Linux, they're more secure than Windows.  They've got my vote.

You can't be serious. Oh I forgot, because Windows is the target of hackers right!? Give me a break, you act as if your OS is invulnerable to everything.
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling

Offline iago

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2006, 10:20:49 pm »
ok, this is what really puts the turd in the bucket... Linux\\\'s code. Contributed by everyone, and thus sometimes coded by morons who have semi-decent ideas, but can\\\'t code well enough to securely and neatly implement the idea lol

I don't suppose you know the process for submitting code to Linux's kernel? 

All code is reviewed by Linus or one of his close assistants closely before being committed into the kernel.  In fact, Linus is considered a "code nazi" by many because he enforces very strict practices to the point where it's nearly impossible to get your own code included in the main kernel base.

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Do you have any evidence that it's sloppy?  Do you have any evidence that Windows is less sloppy?  Show me, please. 

Offline ink

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2006, 10:21:33 pm »
A bunch of sap's stealing source code...lol... Microsoft has bought out the majority of their competition, such as Lotus and Word Perfect, which were far superior to Access and Word. Very skillful.
Anywho, is Vista based off of any previous Microsoft OS? If not, won't it be full of bugs?

Offline Warrior

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Re: Ten Reasons to buy Windows Vista
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2006, 10:23:39 pm »
Windows 2003. I personally love Microsoft's power. It want something it takes it.
One must ask oneself: "do I will trolling to become a universal law?" And then when one realizes "yes, I do will it to be such," one feels completely justified.
-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling