NASA Budget Cuts

[Blaze]

Hehe, was it Ontario you were in, GS?  Most of us... really don't like you guys.

[iago]

My stance is that your being a hypocrite. If you're saying we have pverty problems, than (source): 15.9% below poverty line means you have worse poverty problems than US.

How's that make me a hypocrite?  If I was arguing that Canada should have (more of) a space program, then I would be.  But this isn't about Canada's lack or abundance of money or space stuff.  This is about NASA, which is not canadian. 

The exchange rate means your prices are higher than us. Ciggerettes for example cost $2.00 more than what we pay in Michigan, milk in Canada was ~$6.00 USA, when it's only $2.70 at my local store. The things we needed were indeed more expensive than what we pay at home.

Exchange rate means your money is worth more.  Where in Canada were you, anyway?  I pay about $2.50 for a gallon of milk here, which is $2.20 in your dollars.  Cigarettes are more expensive here, for sure, and so is alcohol.  But that's because of taxes and it's not a general rule. 

Lastly, the first time we tried to get in to go camping/fishing, we we're denied because my dad had a personal possesion charge when he was 19 yrs old!  The second time we went, the people kept talking crap about USA and how it sucks, how americans suck and general rudeness, this is my personal experiance of Canada, I am not just making it up: they were very rude people.

Denying people with a criminal record is understandable.  There are many countries who do that.  What's the solution?  Don't get a criminal record.  I'm happy that my country keeps out criminals :P

And yeah, Canadians can be rude to people who they know are Americans.  People around here have a pretty dim view of the US.  (Blaze said the same thing while I was typing).  The fact of the matter is, pretty much the entire world hates the US.  Your country has a bad attitude, and it pisses people off.  Get over it, and don't tell people you're American next time :P

But in any case, please try to stay on topic.  This thread isn't about whether the US or Canada is better, it's about the US having problems (which you do, I don't think you can deny) that could be solved with extra money.  Please keep this on NASA and American stuff, this isn't about comparing countries.  Thanks. 

[MyndFyre]

it's about the US having problems (which you do, I don't think you can deny) that could be solved with extra money. 

I don't think many of the problems in the US, including poverty, could be solved by extra money.  Rarely is throwing money at a problem the solution (example: public education).  Sometimes it is (example: alternative fuels). 

I note that you employed a very common liberal argument fallacy: you're right, I cannot deny that the US has problems, but by grouping that statement with "that could be solved with extra money," you're attempting to make me agree with the entire statement.  Fortunately, I can line-item veto that last portion.  ;)

[GameSnake]

My stance is that your being a hypocrite. If you're saying we have pverty problems, than (source): 15.9% below poverty line means you have worse poverty problems than US.

How's that make me a hypocrite?  If I was arguing that Canada should have (more of) a space program, then I would be.  But this isn't about Canada's lack or abundance of money or space stuff.  This is about NASA, which is not canadian. 

I think having the ambition to explore new frontiers is great. How are you being a hypodcrite?

Also, there are a lot of poor people in your country.  12% of your citizens are considered to be below the poverty line (source).  That's a lot. 

You go off topic, and you tried to make this a statistic thing. Then by statistics you're country is more below the poverty lines then we are. You probably couldn't afford a decen space program like we could, if thats any relevance, you were being a hyprocrite.

MyndFyre edit: fixed [/qoute] tag.

[iago]

x86] link=topic=5092.msg58725#msg58725 date=1141699986]
I don't think many of the problems in the US, including poverty, could be solved by extra money.  Rarely is throwing money at a problem the solution (example: public education).  Sometimes it is (example: alternative fuels). 

I note that you employed a very common liberal argument fallacy: you're right, I cannot deny that the US has problems, but by grouping that statement with "that could be solved with extra money," you're attempting to make me agree with the entire statement.  Fortunately, I can line-item veto that last portion.  ;)

You're committing a common fallacy as well.  Because some liberals may have made that argument, you attribute it to all liberals.  I forget what that's called, but it's similar to Demagogy, or maybe a Hasty Generalization.  Either way, it is possible for liberals to not use that argument, and it is possible for people who aren't liberals to use the argument.  There isn't much correlation. 

In any case, do you believe that having a stronger police force, for instance, wouldn't help anything?

Of course everything can't be solved with money, but I think that there are significant improvements that could be made.  For example, reducing (or slowing) your national debt. 

Also, there are a lot of poor people in your country.  12% of your citizens are considered to be below the poverty line (source).  That's a lot.  [/qoute]
You go off topic, and you tried to make this a statistic thing. Then by statistics you're country is more below the poverty lines then we are. You probably couldn't afford a decen space program like we could, if thats any relevance, you were being a hyprocrite.

I may be fat, but I can still think that people who are slightly thinner than me are fat.  Just because another country (it doesn't even matter which one!) has a higher poverty rate does not mean that yours doesn't.  The unemployment rate of my country doesn't matter, at all, in this argument.

[Blaze]

You think that not being able to get into a park with a criminal record is bad?  They won't let Canadians with a criminal record into the damn country!

This is getting offtopic, so I'll stop.

[iago]

You think that not being able to get into a park with a criminal record is bad?  They won't let Canadians with a criminal record into the damn country!

This is getting offtopic, so I'll stop.

I thought that's what he meant?

[MyndFyre]

You're committing a common fallacy as well.  Because some liberals may have made that argument, you attribute it to all liberals.  I forget what that's called, but it's similar to Demagogy, or maybe a Hasty Generalization.  Either way, it is possible for liberals to not use that argument, and it is possible for people who aren't liberals to use the argument.  There isn't much correlation. 

It's a hasty generalization, but I wouldn't exactly call it "hasty" -- it's something that I've noticed as a relatively high correlation.  Correlation != causation, so you're right -- others may make the argument too.  I didn't say they don't.  I just said it happens frequently with libs.  ;)

In any case, do you believe that having a stronger police force, for instance, wouldn't help anything?

What are you suggesting it would help?  Police are like a commodity -- they follow the laws of supply and demand.  Particularly with municipal services deemed "essential" (such as police and fire), the money will come from somewhere, because the demand is inelastic and the local government is derelict in its duties if it does not supply these services.

Of course everything can't be solved with money, but I think that there are significant improvements that could be made.  For example, reducing (or slowing) your national debt. 

Well, like I said over @ vL, I think that a national debt is largely inconsequential over long time periods when operating under the assumption that a national economy is perpetual.  So I don't think that slowing or reducing the national debt is necessarily an improvement.

[iago]

x86] link=topic=5092.msg58741#msg58741 date=1141701007]
It's a hasty generalization, but I wouldn't exactly call it "hasty" -- it's something that I've noticed as a relatively high correlation.  Correlation != causation, so you're right -- others may make the argument too.  I didn't say they don't.  I just said it happens frequently with libs.  ;)

Then saying it is invalid, and is basically a Ad Hominem-type statement. 

x86] link=topic=5092.msg58741#msg58741 date=1141701007]
What are you suggesting it would help?  Police are like a commodity -- they follow the laws of supply and demand.  Particularly with municipal services deemed "essential" (such as police and fire), the money will come from somewhere, because the demand is inelastic and the local government is derelict in its duties if it does not supply these services.

You're right, but I disagree with the conclusion that you imply.  I have heard many stories about slums in some American cities where there is tons of crime and gangs rule.  Isn't there some way to throw money at that problem?  I don't know how that type of problem can be solved, perhaps you have some ideas?  That's not sarcastic, it's serious :P

x86] link=topic=5092.msg58741#msg58741 date=1141701007]
Well, like I said over @ vL, I think that a national debt is largely inconsequential over long time periods when operating under the assumption that a national economy is perpetual.  So I don't think that slowing or reducing the national debt is necessarily an improvement.

True, but that's just one example.  It seems like it would help in at least some way to slow the flow of the debt, though. 

I'm sure there has to be programs of some sort that money can be put into to improve the country more than space travel.  I just don't know what your citizens need, I can name a few things that Canada needs, though :)

[Hitmen]

The second time we went, the people kept talking crap about USA and how it sucks, how americans suck and general rudeness, this is my personal experiance of Canada, I am not just making it up: they were very rude people.

Wow, that sounds exactly like what people say about Canada here. Not surprising.

I'm sure there has to be programs of some sort that money can be put into to improve the country more than space travel.  I just don't know what your citizens need, I can name a few things that Canada needs, though :)

Ok fine, take the money, I'm sure you guys need it more that we do. :)

(Woohoo, defending canada and making fun of it in the same post. I rule)

[Blaze]

You think that not being able to get into a park with a criminal record is bad?  They won't let Canadians with a criminal record into the damn country!

This is getting offtopic, so I'll stop.

I thought that's what he meant?

I'm thinking that Gamesnake wasn't allowed into a park, because his dad's record.  A Canadian is not allowed into the States if they have a record.  Enter country > Enter Park

[GameSnake]

Atleast Blaze was honost and just outright said people in his area don't like Americans. Atleast thats an honost answer, because thats how we felt when in Canada (we were in Toronto btw).

[Blaze]

Hah, the funny thing is, that city is most like America, yet, it's like the hate capital.

I live like, 30/40 minutes away from Toronto.

[iago]

Atleast Blaze was honost and just outright said people in his area don't like Americans. Atleast thats an honost answer, because thats how we felt when in Canada (we were in Toronto btw).

Are you implying that I didn't?  Here's what I said:

And yeah, Canadians can be rude to people who they know are Americans.  People around here have a pretty dim view of the US.  (Blaze said the same thing while I was typing).  The fact of the matter is, pretty much the entire world hates the US.  Your country has a bad attitude, and it pisses people off.  Get over it, and don't tell people you're American next time :P

It's not nice, but it's true. 

In any case, it's terribly off-topic in this thread.  I'm trying to talk about the US, purely, not the difference between US and other countries which you keep trying to pull into.  I know some people here (I won't mention names names) whine about threads going off-topic, so let's try to keep this one headed in the right direction, ok?

[igimo1]

I may be fat, but I can still think that people who are slightly thinner than me are fat.  Just because another country (it doesn't even matter which one!) has a higher poverty rate does not mean that yours doesn't.  The unemployment rate of my country doesn't matter, at all, in this argument.

Ah, but the point here is that you should fix your own problems before criticizing other's.


Our amount of debt is pretty minor. I'm reasonably sure we could clean it up and have surplus cash floating around if Bush had more democratic ideals.