Is Visual Basic a good beginner's language?

[AntiVirus]

I agree with the majority on saying that VB is not a good beginner language.  The reason I don't like it is because it's not the kind of programming I like to do.  All I really did was mess with objects and that was very boring for me, I didn't really feel like I was programming; even when I put code into it.

It's just not the language for me, so that's why I am saying what I am saying.  I have also been told (and even seen on here many times) that it gives a new programmer bad habits when programming and even though I don't know all of those bad habits, I can still see where they are coming from.

I always stand by the saying "Do the hard ones first", and since VB is so easy compared to other languages, it would be best for someone to start on a language that is a little more difficult and one that is more like the majority, like C or Java.

[Sidoh]

I agree with the majority on saying that VB is not a good beginner language.  The reason I don't like it is because it's not the kind of programming I like to do.  All I really did was mess with objects and that was very boring for me, I didn't really feel like I was programming; even when I put code into it.

You were weird then.  I definitely felt like I was programming when I was using Visual Basic.  My code probably wasn't optimized for VB code (because I rarely used pre-built things; I usually wrote my own implementations), but I programmed it, by God! :)

It's just not the language for me, so that's why I am saying what I am saying.  I have also been told (and even seen on here many times) that it gives a new programmer bad habits when programming and even though I don't know all of those bad habits, I can still see where they are coming from.

As I've already said a few times, they are not habits that are impossible to break.  Any sort of good programmer will break these habits when they move on to a more powerful language.  I think it's a great starter programming language because it "eases you into" the programming idea.  You're still programming; I don't think there's any doubt there.  Sure, it's a lot easier to do most things, but you're still programming...

I always stand by the saying "Do the hard ones first", and since VB is so easy compared to other languages, it would be best for someone to start on a language that is a little more difficult and one that is more like the majority, like C or Java.

Some times the "hard" languages can be overwhelming.  Learning new syntaxes is the easy part in transversing to another language.  It's the symantecs what make it difficult.  I admit there are huge differences in VB's and C's symantecs, but again, it's nothing that a willing programmer won't be able to learn.

Personally, I don't think it matters much.  If you're any good at programming, the language you start with doesn't make a difference (I, personally, started with C++).

[AntiVirus]

I agree with the majority on saying that VB is not a good beginner language.  The reason I don't like it is because it's not the kind of programming I like to do.  All I really did was mess with objects and that was very boring for me, I didn't really feel like I was programming; even when I put code into it.

You were weird then.  I definitely felt like I was programming when I was using Visual Basic.  My code probably wasn't optimized for VB code (because I rarely used pre-built things; I usually wrote my own implementations), but I programmed it, by God! :)

It's just not the language for me, so that's why I am saying what I am saying.  I have also been told (and even seen on here many times) that it gives a new programmer bad habits when programming and even though I don't know all of those bad habits, I can still see where they are coming from.

As I've already said a few times, they are not habits that are impossible to break.  Any sort of good programmer will break these habits when they move on to a more powerful language.  I think it's a great starter programming language because it "eases you into" the programming idea.  You're still programming; I don't think there's any doubt there.  Sure, it's a lot easier to do most things, but you're still programming...

I always stand by the saying "Do the hard ones first", and since VB is so easy compared to other languages, it would be best for someone to start on a language that is a little more difficult and one that is more like the majority, like C or Java.

Some times the "hard" languages can be overwhelming.  Learning new syntaxes is the easy part in transversing to another language.  It's the symantecs what make it difficult.  I admit there are huge differences in VB's and C's symantecs, but again, it's nothing that a willing programmer won't be able to learn.

Personally, I don't think it matters much.  If you're any good at programming, the language you start with doesn't make a difference (I, personally, started with C++).

I am aware that the habits can be broken, that is why the are only habits. :)

[Sidoh]

I am aware that the habits can be broken, that is why the are only habits. :)

Then I fail to see the permanent negativity of learning Visual Basic as your first programming language.

[igimo1]

void, the data type.

EDIT: I actually haven't done much with C, but I recall reading an article about good/poor coding habits. Voids particularly stuck in my memory, especially since it essentially has the same problem as a Variant in VB6.

[Warrior]

It isn't like they are used all the time, they are used when the return of a function cannot be expected (void pointers) and void's return nothing so..what's your point?

[ink]

it all depends on the person, may be a good beginner language for one person but just doesn't do it for another
in my own opinion, i opted to go with c++ first. not sure there was any particular reasoning behind it though.

[Sidoh]

it all depends on the person, may be a good beginner language for one person but just doesn't do it for another
in my own opinion, i opted to go with c++ first. not sure there was any particular reasoning behind it though.

Not really.  Visual Basic is going to be easier for any beginning programmer.  That doesn't mean other languages aren't easy to learn by too, I'm simply saying Visual Basic is easier than almost every given language.

[MyndFyre]

it all depends on the person, may be a good beginner language for one person but just doesn't do it for another
in my own opinion, i opted to go with c++ first. not sure there was any particular reasoning behind it though.

Not really.  Visual Basic is going to be easier for any beginning programmer.  That doesn't mean other languages aren't easy to learn by too, I'm simply saying Visual Basic is easier than almost every given language.

I don't think I'd agree with that.  When I started web programming for servers, I had a chance to go into VBScript or JavaScript.  I had a good JavaScript tutorial around, and I think most people just expected you to understand VBScript.  I found JavaScript *far* easier than VBScript even though they both exposed the exact same objects in the server environment.  This was my very first exposure to programming.  I learned everything I've ever needed to know about JavaScript from Thau's 10-lesson tutorial at Webmonkey.

Javascript, of course, facilitates transitions to Java, although it's typeless.

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=5108.msg59059#msg59059 date=1141883377]I don't think I'd agree with that.  When I started web programming for servers, I had a chance to go into VBScript or JavaScript.  I had a good JavaScript tutorial around, and I think most people just expected you to understand VBScript.  I found JavaScript *far* easier than VBScript even though they both exposed the exact same objects in the server environment.  This was my very first exposure to programming.  I learned everything I've ever needed to know about JavaScript from Thau's 10-lesson tutorial at Webmonkey.

Javascript, of course, facilitates transitions to Java, although it's typeless.

I don't think it's necessarily think it's fair to use this analogy.  While it definitely does help prove a point, I get a much different feel from Javascript/VB Script than I do from Java/Visual Basic.  They are definitely different things to consider.

You're right, though.  VB Script is pretty stupid compared to Javascript. :)

[Joe]

void, the data type.

EDIT: I actually haven't done much with C, but I recall reading an article about good/poor coding habits. Voids particularly stuck in my memory, especially since it essentially has the same problem as a Variant in VB6.

People who dimension their variables as variants deserve to be shot.

[MyndFyre]

void, the data type.

EDIT: I actually haven't done much with C, but I recall reading an article about good/poor coding habits. Voids particularly stuck in my memory, especially since it essentially has the same problem as a Variant in VB6.

People who dimension their variables as variants deserve to be shot.

You know, the keyword "Dim" doesn't stand for "Dimension," it stands for "Declare In Memory."  It was an acronym once, when BASIC only relied on the all-uppercase DIM statement.

And, COM users find Variant useful because they can use IDispatch objects from other languages through it.  IDispatch allows functions to be called through late binding because it provides interface and member information to the caller.

[iago]

x86] link=topic=5108.msg59091#msg59091 date=1141918727]
You know, the keyword "Dim" doesn't stand for "Dimension," it stands for "Declare In Memory."  It was an acronym once, when BASIC only relied on the all-uppercase DIM statement.

In books and courses I've read, they've always refered to "dim" as "dimension". 

From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing:

dim statement

<programming> (From "dimension") A keyword in most versions
of the BASIC programming language that declares the size of
an array. E.g.

DIM A(100)

declares a one-dimensional array with 101 numeric elements
(including A(0)).

Visual Basic uses the DIM (or "Dim") statement for any
variable declaration, even scalars, e.g.

Dim DepartmentNumber As Integer

which declares a single (scalar) variable of type Integer.

(1999-03-26)

Perhaps you're the one that has it wrong? :P

[MyndFyre]

In books and courses I've read, they've always refered to "dim" as "dimension". 

Perhaps you're the one that has it wrong? :P

I'll take your word for it (with regard to other books), but when I was working in BASIC about 13-14 years ago -- you know, Apple IIe-era in elementary school -- I read a book from my local library that said it was declare in memory. 

Since we're talking about VB, I thought it might be handy to look at the VB Language Reference:

Used at module, class, structure, procedure, or block level to declare and allocate storage space for variables.

(emphasis added).  Point being, it's used to declare variables.  You're not always dimensioning an array when you Dim a variable.  Besides -- where to variables go?  In memory.  :P

Oooh!  And, this site which I found while Googling, doesn't list "dimension" as something it stands for, but it *does* list "Declare In Memory" as well as "Declare Into Memory".  :P

[iago]

x86] link=topic=5108.msg59138#msg59138 date=1141950281]

In books and courses I've read, they've always refered to "dim" as "dimension". 

Perhaps you're the one that has it wrong? :P

I'll take your word for it (with regard to other books), but when I was working in BASIC about 13-14 years ago -- you know, Apple IIe-era in elementary school -- I read a book from my local library that said it was declare in memory. 

Since we're talking about VB, I thought it might be handy to look at the VB Language Reference:

Used at module, class, structure, procedure, or block level to declare and allocate storage space for variables.

(emphasis added).  Point being, it's used to declare variables.  You're not always dimensioning an array when you Dim a variable.  Besides -- where to variables go?  In memory.  :P

Oooh!  And, this site which I found while Googling, doesn't list "dimension" as something it stands for, but it *does* list "Declare In Memory" as well as "Declare Into Memory".  :P

That's all well and good, but do you have any real sites that say it stands for "Declare in Memory"?  "stands4.com" doesn't strike me as being a better source than the "Online Dictionary of Computing".  Also, Acronym Finder says it's dimension, and it's usually the best source for abbreviations. 

I'm not disputing that it declares a variable in memory.  It definitely does.  But I've never seen it referred to as meaning that. 

And yeah, I have memories of programming BASIC on a Commador 64 (and now I can't even spell it).  Good times, those were...