Government Taps Almost Every Phone in the USA

[Armin]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/17/bush.nsa/
Might I remind you all of the quote Joe posted the other day:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

This whole thing makes me sick. I'm not blaming it directly on Bush, but he was obviously a part of it. He plays a little game, and tries making whoever released the information  seem like a bad guy, by saying they just threatened the security of the US citizens. What a load of crap.

[Sidoh]

Sorry for my blatant ignorance on the subject, but hasn't this been known for a few months now?

[MyndFyre]

You're not the blatantly ignorant one Sidoh.  MetaL is.  This program has been public for a LONG time, and it's well-known that it only involves calls originating from outside the US from suspected terrorists.  US citizens used to be protected from this explicitly (from the NSA), theoretically, although it's also known that similar programs were used by Carter, Bush I, and Clinton.

[Eric]

Saturday, December 17, 2005

Possible that you've mistaken this for the more recent AT&T controversy?

[CrAz3D]

I dont see anything about "every phone" in the article.

I saw the other day that the NSA is trying to make a database of every call made, just who & when though.

[Newby]

x86] link=topic=5850.msg69187#msg69187 date=1147421490]
You're not the blatantly ignorant one Sidoh.  MetaL is.  This program has been public for a LONG time, and it's well-known that it only involves calls originating from outside the US from suspected terrorists.  US citizens used to be protected from this explicitly (from the NSA), theoretically, although it's also known that similar programs were used by Carter, Bush I, and Clinton.

No. This is everyone.

This frustrates me for the same reason the NSA/AT&T traffic forwarding bit does. It gets everyone, regardless of whether or not you're in contact with terrorists.

[iago]

x86] link=topic=5850.msg69187#msg69187 date=1147421490]
You're not the blatantly ignorant one Sidoh.  MetaL is.  This program has been public for a LONG time, and it's well-known that it only involves calls originating from outside the US from suspected terrorists.  US citizens used to be protected from this explicitly (from the NSA), theoretically, although it's also known that similar programs were used by Carter, Bush I, and Clinton.

No. This is everyone.

This frustrates me for the same reason the NSA/AT&T traffic forwarding bit does. It gets everyone, regardless of whether or not you're in contact with terrorists.

Yeah, this is new.  They're tracking everybody.  But not the content of the calls, only the source/destination. 

As far as I can tell, they're building a who-calls-who network.  That way, if your friend talks to terrorists, they can pull you in too.  That's probably not true, but eh?

[CrAz3D]

.....I'm sad

I saw a poll on ... the news, CNN or something, today that said 65% of Americans accept the phone tapping/call database and 35% don't like it :(

WTF people, come on, this is getting down right scary.

[iago]

.....I'm sad

I saw a poll on ... the news, CNN or something, today that said 65% of Americans accept the phone tapping/call database and 35% don't like it :(

WTF people, come on, this is getting down right scary.

You're right.  It's actually 63% source.  I love how it was done by phone.. if you say you're against it, They know who you are :)

This Washington Post-ABC News poll was conducted by telephone May 11, 2006 among 502 randomly selected adults.

It's because people are so terrified of terrorists, etc.

Here's an awesome quote from Slashdot:

Bin Laden has kicked our ass in a way that is so much better than mere body counts. He has cost us hundreds of billions in dollars and, more importantly, managed to shift our entire belief structure. As far as I'm concerned, the terrorists have won. I'm sure this turned out better than Bin Laden ever imagined.

That's what I've been saying! Terrorists are making an effort to cause terror, and they're done that perfectly to the point where the country is more afraid of terrorists than child-rapers. 

[CrAz3D]

I agree.

What we were SUPPOSED to do is just jump back into how life was pre-9/11....+blow some shit up, thats all, nothing more.

And really, the blowing crap up is more for an anger release...I spose we could catch Bin Laden if we wanted.


EDIT:

Created: Thursday, May 11, 2006, at 10:58:16 EDT
How does the report that the NSA is building a database of Americans' phone calls make you feel?
Creepy
   
   
  75%
   
142928 votes
More secure
   
   
  25%
   
46497 votes
Total: 189425 votes
This QuickVote is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, nor the public as a whole. The QuickVote sponsor is not responsible for content, functionality or the opinions expressed therein.
Related:   
# USA Today: NSA building massive database of phone records
# Get more Quick Vote results

Poll that is ongoing on CNN.com.
WTF, MEGA different numbers.

Polls suck unless you talk to like at least 10 million people...500 ppl say "WTF ever dude" while 200k ppl say "WTF IS GOING ON!?"

[GameSnake]

x86] link=topic=5850.msg69187#msg69187 date=1147421490]
You're not the blatantly ignorant one Sidoh.  MetaL is.  This program has been public for a LONG time, and it's well-known that it only involves calls originating from outside the US from suspected terrorists.  US citizens used to be protected from this explicitly (from the NSA), theoretically, although it's also known that similar programs were used by Carter, Bush I, and Clinton.

No. This is everyone.

This frustrates me for the same reason the NSA/AT&T traffic forwarding bit does. It gets everyone, regardless of whether or not you're in contact with terrorists.

Yeah, this is new.  They're tracking everybody.  But not the content of the calls, only the source/destination. 

As far as I can tell, they're building a who-calls-who network.  That way, if your friend talks to terrorists, they can pull you in too.  That's probably not true, but eh?

Adding to Myndys scolding: 25 million people are not terroists. It's the fact that congress isnt looking into this for us, and the media is that makes us mad.

Bin Laden will bleed the U.S of our money, but theres one guy who lets it happen: George Bush. I would support impeachment if congress finds illegal doings.

[GameSnake]

x86] link=topic=5850.msg69187#msg69187 date=1147421490]
theoretically, although it's also known that similar programs were used by Carter, Bush I, and Clinton.

I've up up your theory:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9561

Dick Cheney taps thousands pre-9/11

The rest were used sparringly and only in extreme conditions, by contrast Clinton had used this "legal nuclear bomb" half a dozen times.

[Sidoh]

They haven't already been recording that?  Crime shows (like CSI and stuff) always have the detectives running around looking at "call records."  Maybe that's fictitious? 

Regardless, I personally don't see much of a problem with it.

[MyndFyre]

by contrast Clinton had used this "legal nuclear bomb" half a dozen times.

Yeah, and look where it got us.  He bombed civilian structures in Serbia, and a recessing economy.

25 million people are not terroists. It's the fact that congress isnt looking into this for us, and the media is that makes us mad.

Do you mean 250 million people?  If not, I don't understand what you're saying.

Of course, I'm not worried when they look at my international call list, or even my domestic call list.  Know why?  I'm not a terrorist.

I just want to know: what are you afraid of them knowing by looking at your call list?  Hehe, snort snort, this guy called for phone sex 28 times.  That was after he ordered the fleshlight.  What a fucking loser.  Hehehe, snort snort

No. This is everyone.

The AT&T thing is new.  MetaL did NOT link to the AT&T thing, he linked to the NSA tapping thing that I described in my post.

I saw a poll on ... the news, CNN or something, today that said 65% of Americans accept the phone tapping/call database and 35% don't like it :(

WTF people, come on, this is getting down right scary.

The one and only problem I could see this being for is if politicians in power (or politically-motivated bureaucrats) use the program to damage political opponents.  Uncool.

As it turns out, on a related note, a friend of mine who works for a major bank chain says she uses Myspace during the hiring process to determine whether to hire someone.

As far as I can tell, they're building a who-calls-who network.  That way, if your friend talks to terrorists, they can pull you in too.  That's probably not true, but eh?

That idea would probably not go anywhere.  No American jury would convict someone because he talked to someone who talked to a terrorist.  Now, if he talked to someone who talked to a terrorist, and then blew shit up, probably all three could be implicated.

On the side note, as I linked to GS's post above (about the Fleshlight (different post)), I would just like to point out that it's not entirely difficult to resolve an internet handle (particularly one like mine, which has historically been associated with my real-name email address), and have talked about people's real names, that shit you say on the internet that is persistent is FAR more dangerous than what you say on the phone, since the internet is public domain and easily-accessible.

[iago]

They haven't already been recording that?  Crime shows (like CSI and stuff) always have the detectives running around looking at "call records."  Maybe that's fictitious? 

Regardless, I personally don't see much of a problem with it.

Specific records can be subpeona'ed, and I think they have to be kept for a certain amount of time.  However, taking and correlating all records is beyond that.