Dreams

[MyndFyre]

Heres an interesting quid: imagine a color never seen before - now thats impossible.

I was hoping to get input on this idea.

Humans have a very specific range of perceptible colors.  It's likely that you've probably seen pretty much every shade of every color within that range.

[d&q]

How do you know that what you see as "green", is actually viewed as a completely different color by other people? For all you know, the "blue" you always see might look orange to others.

[iago]

How do you know that what you see as "green", is actually viewed as a completely different color by other people? For all you know, the "blue" you always see might look orange to others.

I've thought about that.  But then I realized, who cares?  It dosn't affect anything. 

But the idea that everybody perceives the Universe differently is an interesting one, although one that I'm not entirely prepared to subscribe to.

[MyndFyre]

How do you know that what you see as "green", is actually viewed as a completely different color by other people? For all you know, the "blue" you always see might look orange to others.

It might be, but it's irrelevant, since it would always be labelled "blue."  In the case of colorblind people, we can tell fairly quickly.

[Sidoh]

How do you know that what you see as "green", is actually viewed as a completely different color by other people? For all you know, the "blue" you always see might look orange to others.

Genetics, physics and careful analysis of the human eye.

[d&q]

@Myndfyre: For the most part, colorblind people just can't tell some colors apart (blue/green, orange/red). It wouldn't matter how they view it, it just matters that they can't make the distinction.

@Sidoh: I've thought of that, but I tried searching for it a few months ago and I couldn't find anything that definitively proves that we all view colors, or like iago said, even the universe, in the same way. Maybe I'm just a bad googler  ???.

[Sidoh]

@Sidoh: I've thought of that, but I tried searching for it a few months ago and I couldn't find anything that definitively proves that we all view colors, or like iago said, even the universe, in the same way. Maybe I'm just a bad googler  ???.

Genes define how the eyes are formed.  Physics define how the eye percieve light and how the brain interpets it.  There's nothing mystical about it.

[Rule]

@Sidoh: I've thought of that, but I tried searching for it a few months ago and I couldn't find anything that definitively proves that we all view colors, or like iago said, even the universe, in the same way. Maybe I'm just a bad googler  ???.

Genes define how the eyes are formed.  Physics define how the eye percieve light and how the brain interpets it.  There's nothing mystical about it.

I think he's talking about something more subtle.  If I understand him correctly, it's something I've thought about too, but it's somewhat hard to express properly:

Every colour has a unique wavelength.  Imagine this wavelength as a "key" and whatever image we see as a "value". 

Wavelength                    My Value                   Your Value
533 nm (Red)                                  Y                                            X
...
(Blue)                                              X                                            Y
...
(Green)                                           Z                                            Z

etc.

Now as long as we have a unique "value" for every unique "key" we could both see red and blue, and agree which is red and which is blue, and there would be no confusion.  Even though you visualize blue the way I visualize red, we would never be able to express that, because we both can identify unambiguously red and blue and agree on which is which.

This seems possible in my mind, for example, because of how people tend to describe various tastes differently yet agree (after tasting some sample) on what food it is they are tasting.  E.g. You and I may taste halibut differently, but we both know when we've eaten halibut!

[MyndFyre]

Yes Rule, you stated it precisely as I meant.

[Sidoh]

That's what I thought he was talking about.  It's an interesting subject; I've thought about it before too.  It seems that a lot of people have.  When I get into discussions with some people, they'll bring this or something similar up.

I'm not sure, though.  I think there would still have to be a pretty strict structure to it.  This "proof" does contain subjectivity, but not enough to go unconsidered, I think.

Many people agree that some colors "don't go well together" in clothing.  Fashion designers back away from using certain colors together because they "clash."  They do this because they agree with this commonly known "fact" and don't want to lose profit because their products will generally be thought of as ugly.

[Rule]

That's what I thought he was talking about.  It's an interesting subject; I've thought about it before too.  It seems that a lot of people have.  When I get into discussions with some people, they'll bring this or something similar up.

I'm not sure, though.  I think there would still have to be a pretty strict structure to it.  This "proof" does contain subjectivity, but not enough to go unconsidered, I think.

Many people agree that some colors "don't go well together" in clothing.  Fashion designers back away from using certain colors together because they "clash."  They do this because they agree with this commonly known "fact" and don't want to lose profit because their products will generally be thought of as ugly.

True, but at the same time there is a lot of clash in people's personal tastes in colours.  :P

It's hard to say -- it's probably one of those things we'll never find out, which makes it kind of interesting. Intuitively I agree though, there probably isn't much difference in the way each individual visualizes a particular colour, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was some difference on occasion -- especially considering how
colourblind people merely have the same "value" for red and green: is that value what others have for red, for green, or is it something completely different?

I wasn't sure whether or not people had interpreted Deuce properly because I've tried to explain this in 'real life' and people usually end up misinterpreting what I'm saying.  I'm surprised so many people here have thought about it -- and here I was thinking how creative my idea is :P.

[d&q]

I have always wondered what the universe actually looks like. Not a very good way to put it, but how it actually "is", not how we view it.

On a vaguely interesting side note, the person who brought this up with me was completely stoned out of his mind.

[MyndFyre]

I have always wondered what the universe actually looks like. Not a very good way to put it, but how it actually "is", not how we view it.

On a vaguely interesting side note, the person who brought this up with me was completely stoned out of his mind.

It can only really be the way we view it, because we could never know that it's anything else.  ;)

[GameSnake]

x86] link=topic=6391.msg77184#msg77184 date=1151368015]

I have always wondered what the universe actually looks like. Not a very good way to put it, but how it actually "is", not how we view it.

On a vaguely interesting side note, the person who brought this up with me was completely stoned out of his mind.

It can only really be the way we view it, because we could never know that it's anything else.  ;)

I've oft wonderd that too.

[MyndFyre]

x86] link=topic=6391.msg77184#msg77184 date=1151368015]

I have always wondered what the universe actually looks like. Not a very good way to put it, but how it actually "is", not how we view it.

On a vaguely interesting side note, the person who brought this up with me was completely stoned out of his mind.

It can only really be the way we view it, because we could never know that it's anything else.  ;)

I've oft wonderd that too.

Deuce's friend, a stoner.  GameSnake, a stoner.  Coincidence?