Massachusetts soon to be a haven..

[Newby]

It's comparable. An education at other places is shit compared to an education at Harvard.

Not true... you're forgetting that there are other schools in the same league as Harvard... MIT, CalTech, Stanford, etc...

CrAz3D said "overly expensive" so I figured he was ruling out ivy league schools and the like. The UC system education is miniscule compared to that of an ivy league school. :)

[RoMi]

It's comparable. An education at other places is shit compared to an education at Harvard.

Not true... you're forgetting that there are other schools in the same league as Harvard... MIT, CalTech, Stanford, etc...

CrAz3D said "overly expensive" so I figured he was ruling out ivy league schools and the like. The UC system education is miniscule compared to that of an ivy league school. :)

Not true...Berkeley.

[Newby]

I lost all respect for Berkeley when my teacher told me when she went there, there were plans for that town to secede from the US during the Vietnam War.

[Sidoh]

I lost all respect for Berkeley when my teacher told me when she went there, there were plans for that town to secede from the US during the Vietnam War.

And that makes its education inferior?

[CrAz3D]

Well, I guess with Berkely being the highest ranked public school (& being 21 overall) there is no comparable education.

[Newby]

I lost all respect for Berkeley when my teacher told me when she went there, there were plans for that town to secede from the US during the Vietnam War.

And that makes its education inferior?

No. But I'd never go there. So eh? :)

[Sidoh]

Well, I guess with Berkely being the highest ranked public school (& being 21 overall) there is no comparable education.

That doesn't have much to do with your criticism of Harvard.

No. But I'd never go there. So eh? :)

Why? ...

[CrAz3D]

Well, I guess with Berkely being the highest ranked public school (& being 21 overall) there is no comparable education.

That doesn't have much to do with your criticism of Harvard.

Berkely is inexpensive (for instaters), my thing was that Harvard was just over rated(to an extent) since it is an ivy league.

[Sidoh]

Berkely is inexpensive (for instaters), my thing was that Harvard was just over rated(to an extent) since it is an ivy league.

How would you know?  Have you been there?  Have you attended classes at Harvard as well as the other colleges you intend to compare it to?  It seems like a very hastey judgement which I think is totally invalid.  Harvard is an excellent college.  The tuition may be higher, but I would also think anyone who was accepted who opted not to go because of financial reasons is pretty foolish.  It may strain their current situation, but they will have a much easier time finding a successful job than other people who went to school for the same thing elsewhere.  If you don't think employers don't give a shit which school you went to, I think you're wrong. :P

[d&q]

Berkely is inexpensive (for instaters), my thing was that Harvard was just over rated(to an extent) since it is an ivy league.

How would you know?  Have you been there?  Have you attended classes at Harvard as well as the other colleges you intend to compare it to?  It seems like a very hastey judgement which I think is totally invalid.  Harvard is an excellent college.  The tuition may be higher, but I would also think anyone who was accepted who opted not to go because of financial reasons is pretty foolish.  It may strain their current situation, but they will have a much easier time finding a successful job than other people who went to school for the same thing elsewhere.  If you don't think employers don't give a shit which school you went to, I think you're wrong. :P

I have been to Harvard, and I have done research on it curricula and the like. Although I believe it is a great school with excellent education, I believe it is too expensive. The main argument over the expenses is that you get "100% financial aid", which is far from the truth. You only receive anything close to that if you are making very little. For people in middle class, our parents make the what I call the "perfect salary"; high enough to have little financial aid(by little, I mean just not enough), but low enough for it to take a toll on our welfare. Also, the problem with large universities such as Harvard is that while they have tenured professors with Ph.Ds and the like, many undergraduates are actually taught by the graduate aids, and not the actual professor(I know this for a fact, since I know two people who are currently attending Harvard). While Craz3d's comments might've been slightly uninformed, I do agree that colleges like Harvard, although very nice, are very overrated. People at my school hear "Ivy League" and start shitting their pants. It's horrible.

[CrAz3D]

berkely & harvard are both ranked high in the nation, berkely is $30k+ a year cheaper.
I believe its safe for me to say that berkely seems like a better choice for people that dont have the ability to afford the school

[Sidoh]

I have been to Harvard, and I have done research on it curricula and the like. Although I believe it is a great school with excellent education, I believe it is too expensive.

I still think it's pretty hard to tell if you haven't attended the school.  You can research the school all you want from an outsider's eye, but I still think it's wrong to judge it too quickly.  There are many things in this world that are "too expensive."  Ever heard of Cisco?

The main argument over the expenses is that you get "100% financial aid", which is far from the truth. You only receive anything close to that if you are making very little.

That depends on how well you applied yourself to attaining scholarships.  A person who gets into Harvard is very likely to recieve a plethora of scholarships.

For people in middle class, our parents make the what I call the "perfect salary"; high enough to have little financial aid(by little, I mean just not enough), but low enough for it to take a toll on our welfare.

That should have no effect on your ability to perform well enough in academics (and other "sought after" activities) that the scholarship foundations so zealously seek.

Harvard offers free tuition for any student from a family earning under $60,000/year.  That seems like a marvelous offer to me.

Also, the problem with large universities such as Harvard is that while they have tenured professors with Ph.Ds and the like, many undergraduates are actually taught by the graduate aids, and not the actual professor(I know this for a fact, since I know two people who are currently attending Harvard).

So?  They are undergraduate classes; they're relatively elementary in concept.  The GTA's aren't idiots.  They're perfectly capable of instructing a course.  They were selected for a reason.  Their youth could even allow them to connect with students on a more personal level, which makes the educational experience more enjoyable and, as a result, more bashful students feel comfortable asking questions when they miss a concept.  It seems to me that a GTA is a more effective instructor for the more elementary courses that an undergraduate student would generally enroll in.

I suspect that is true of most colleges, but that does not necessarily destroy the education that you would get otherwise.  You're forgetting that professors still organize the curriculum, oversee the performance of the GTA and are openly available to help a distressed student.  They have office hours which are open to the students of the undergraduate classes.  Undergraduate research also exists in most universities.  Working with these professors gives students a chance to get involved with their field early on.  If the facilities and faculty of the university are of higher quality, I would reasonably suspect that the educational value of the experience would also be higher.  If these opportunities are taken advantage of early on, then I don't understand how having a GTA teach a class degrades the intellectual stimulation of a higher university.

While Craz3d's comments might've been slightly uninformed, I do agree that colleges like Harvard, although very nice, are very overrated.

Even if the education you recieve at Harvard may be "overrated," I don't think its prestige is.  Graduating from a university such as Harvard impresses most people, including employers.  I am not saying that going to another college makes you suck at life (otherwise, I'd be saying that about myself)!  I'm saying that I think Harvard is an excellent school and I'm confused that someone would dare insult it.

People at my school hear "Ivy League" and start shitting their pants. It's horrible.

I know the type of people.  I think the schools are considered better for a reason, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily disagree that they are overpriced.  :P

berkely & harvard are both ranked high in the nation, berkely is $30k+ a year cheaper.
I believe its safe for me to say that berkely seems like a better choice for people that dont have the ability to afford the school

The price is irrelivant if you are awarded lots of scholarships.  Plus, I'm faily certain that Harvard and Berkely have different focuses.

Harvard is a private university.  Berkely is not.  I'd certainly hope the tuition rates are higher.  If they weren't, I think the school would suck. :P

[CrAz3D]

so you can judge a school based on the price of it but I cant?......

[Sidoh]

so you can judge a school based on the price of it but I cant?......

I'm not judging the school based on anything close to price, Crazed.  I'm explaining to you that Harvard is a private university.  Private universities don't have government funding.  Did you not read anything I said?

[d&q]

I have been to Harvard, and I have done research on it curricula and the like. Although I believe it is a great school with excellent education, I believe it is too expensive.

I still think it's pretty hard to tell if you haven't attended the school.  You can research the school all you want from an outsider's eye, but I still think it's wrong to judge it too quickly.  There are many things in this world that are "too expensive."  Ever heard of Cisco?

Like I said, I know people who currently attend Harvard, and they agree with me. Also, "too expensive" is a relative term, and while you might not think Harvard is too expensive, I do.

The main argument over the expenses is that you get "100% financial aid", which is far from the truth. You only receive anything close to that if you are making very little.

That depends on how well you applied yourself to attaining scholarships.  A person who gets into Harvard is very likely to recieve a plethora of scholarships.

As true as that may be, I wasn't arguing that point. I was referring to RoMi's statement that Harvard matches 100% of all costs. In my experience, this only holds true for all who make $60,000 or less.

For people in middle class, our parents make the what I call the "perfect salary"; high enough to have little financial aid(by little, I mean just not enough), but low enough for it to take a toll on our welfare.

That should have no effect on your ability to perform well enough in academics (and other "sought after" activities) that the scholarship foundations so zealously seek.

Harvard offers free tuition for any student from a family earning under $60,000/year.  That seems like a marvelous offer to me.

As previously stated, I was referring specifically to financial aid, not scholarships.  And where I live, a $60,000 income isn't considered middle class, but that is arguable.

Also, the problem with large universities such as Harvard is that while they have tenured professors with Ph.Ds and the like, many undergraduates are actually taught by the graduate aids, and not the actual professor(I know this for a fact, since I know two people who are currently attending Harvard).

So?  They are undergraduate classes; they're relatively elementary in concept.  The GTA's aren't idiots.  They're perfectly capable of instructing a course.  They were selected for a reason.  Their youth could even allow them to connect with students on a more personal level, which makes the educational experience more enjoyable and, as a result, more bashful students feel comfortable asking questions when they miss a concept.  It seems to me that a GTA is a more effective instructor for the more elementary courses that an undergraduate student would generally enroll in.

I suspect that is true of most colleges, but that does not necessarily destroy the education that you would get otherwise.  You're forgetting that professors still organize the curriculum, oversee the performance of the GTA and are openly available to help a distressed student.  They have office hours which are open to the students of the undergraduate classes.  Undergraduate research also exists in most universities.  Working with these professors gives students a chance to get involved with their field early on.  If the facilities and faculty of the university are of higher quality, I would reasonably suspect that the educational value of the experience would also be higher.  If these opportunities are taken advantage of early on, then I don't understand how having a GTA teach a class degrades the intellectual stimulation of a higher university.

Your idea that undergrads would relate to GTAs better, than to professors isn't necessarily true. I for one, would much prefer a professor teaching me because I would know that any and all questions I had would definitely be answered(correctly). Some at Harvard believe the graduate teaching assistants tend to be aloof and ineffective compared to professors. I have not only been told this about Harvard, but many other universities also.

While Craz3d's comments might've been slightly uninformed, I do agree that colleges like Harvard, although very nice, are very overrated.

Even if the education you recieve at Harvard may be "overrated," I don't think its prestige is.  Graduating from a university such as Harvard impresses most people, including employers.  I am not saying that going to another college makes you suck at life (otherwise, I'd be saying that about myself)!  I'm saying that I think Harvard is an excellent school and I'm confused that someone would dare insult it.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Education notwithstanding, the fact that you went to Harvard will help you immensely in acquiring a job.