Inmate sues to get vegan diet

[CrAz3D]

Convicts are second class citizens, hell in 14 states ex-cons lose their right to vote even after serving their time (which I feel is wrong).

Felons?

Yeah, they shouldnt vote as they've already proven that they make HORRIBLE choices

[while1]

Eh, I usually agree with you, but I disagree in this area.  Just as I believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, I also believe in the right to vote.  Whether or not you make bad decisions.  Hell, I'd a lot of Americans who are non-felons make really bad decisions that would make me question their ability to vote... but I still believe that if they are 18 they should be able to vote just like any other of age adult in the U.S.

EDIT:  If this does't make sense, then it's b/c of the liter of wine id rank.  Sorry.

[iago]

This comes back to the broken penal system -- people are supposed to go to jail to be rehabilitated, not punished. Punishment obviously doesn't do anything, since the vast majority of inmates go back to crime.

[Warrior]

This comes back to the broken penal system -- people are supposed to go to jail to be rehabilitated, not punished. Punishment obviously doesn't do anything, since the vast majority of inmates go back to crime.

I disagree strongly, people go to jail for distinct reasons. Rehabilitation being one of them, there is a point where people are so fucked up that this is no longer an option. This is where incarceration for the purpose of incapacitation comes in. They don't care where you are, just so long as you are off of the streets.

The same distinction taken in the reason for jailing should be taken in treatment for prisoners, in my opinion. People there to be genuinely rehabilitated should be treated with a nicer tone or even completely separated in terms of cell blocks. I also believe the incapacitated should have the reserved right to become rehabilitated with time (Read: The Lifers Group).

That said, ideally everyone would be able to go in and come out rehabilitated -- but often the very opposite of this happens simply due to the amount of hard criminals in the environment you're put in even if it's for a stupid crime like possession.

[iago]

I disagree strongly, people go to jail for distinct reasons. Rehabilitation being one of them, there is a point where people are so fucked up that this is no longer an option. This is where incarceration for the purpose of incapacitation comes in. They don't care where you are, just so long as you are off of the streets.

When that's the case, what's the point of putting them in prison at all? If they're never going to be "better", why not just kill them?

The same distinction taken in the reason for jailing should be taken in treatment for prisoners, in my opinion. People there to be genuinely rehabilitated should be treated with a nicer tone or even completely separated in terms of cell blocks. I also believe the incapacitated should have the reserved right to become rehabilitated with time (Read: The Lifers Group).

As I said, I think everybody should be there to be rehabilitated, but I don't think prisons realize that anymore.

[Warrior]

I disagree strongly, people go to jail for distinct reasons. Rehabilitation being one of them, there is a point where people are so fucked up that this is no longer an option. This is where incarceration for the purpose of incapacitation comes in. They don't care where you are, just so long as you are off of the streets.

When that's the case, what's the point of putting them in prison at all? If they're never going to be "better", why not just kill them?

Because they've done nothing deserving of murder, yet they are repeat offenders of lesser crimes.

As I said, I think everybody should be there to be rehabilitated, but I don't think prisons realize that anymore.

That's very much easier said than done. I don't fault the prison more than I fault the entire legal system for taking a "throw away the key" approach to small crime -- putting people who would otherwise lead a normal life into an environment which is shared with real criminals. That kind of thing does not help you, a lot of people come out of jail more fucked up than when they went in.

Imagine a Lifer getting paroled, he has no grip on what the real world is like when he comes out. Most of the time they have no family, and no future awaits them. In prison they were at least known by someone -- when they come out they are nobodies with no hopes of ever being anyone since their life has been pretty much wasted in this so called "rehabilitation".

[CrAz3D]

why not just kill them?

kill them all

[Warrior]

why not just kill them?

kill them all

iago and crazed agree

i believe i can now claim i have won this thread by process of elimination

[MyndFyre]

Great, except it costs more (on average) to kill a person than it does to keep them in prison for life. And that's not even touching on the objectivity and subjectivity of it all.

Seriously?  Cuz I wouldn't even charge.

[iago]

Because they've done nothing deserving of murder, yet they are repeat offenders of lesser crimes.

But what's the point? They're going to get out and hurt people again until they get caught and put back in again (not necessarily hurt physically, I count theft and all that too). If you aren't going to help them change, why even bother?

That's very much easier said than done. I don't fault the prison more than I fault the entire legal system for taking a "throw away the key" approach to small crime -- putting people who would otherwise lead a normal life into an environment which is shared with real criminals. That kind of thing does not help you, a lot of people come out of jail more fucked up than when they went in.

Imagine a Lifer getting paroled, he has no grip on what the real world is like when he comes out. Most of the time they have no family, and no future awaits them. In prison they were at least known by someone -- when they come out they are nobodies with no hopes of ever being anyone since their life has been pretty much wasted in this so called "rehabilitation".

I agree, and that's why I think the prison system is inherently flawed. It IS easier said than done, but it doesn't even seem like anybody is trying.

iago and crazed agree

No, I don't agree. I think that they should work to rehabilitate everybody. If they aren't going to bother, why not kill them? I'm presenting the killing idea as the other end of a dilemma, but I don't agree with it.

i believe i can now claim i have won this thread by process of elimination

I wasn't aware it was a competition.

[Ender]

Great, except it costs more (on average) to kill a person than it does to keep them in prison for life.

I don't see how this can be true. Source?

[deadly7]

I don't see how this can be true. Source?

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html
Not a source in itself, but he gives books/articles and stuff, and I don't much care to find them.

Edit:
http://law.jrank.org/pages/5002/Capital-Punishment-COSTS-CAPITAL-PUNISHMENT.html
This is mucch better of a source, imo.

[Camel]

Great, except it costs more (on average) to kill a person than it does to keep them in prison for life. And that's not even touching on the objectivity and subjectivity of it all.

Seriously?  Cuz I wouldn't even charge.

It's expensive because of the overhead cost, not the actual execution. It takes a lot of work for a state to organize and execute (pun intended).