Stupid GUI designs

[deadly7]

nslay:

It would be nice if windows could be shaded (i.e. pulled up like a lamp shade) or iconified. Iconfication is a much more general concept than a task bar and allows you to place your iconified windows anywhere on the desktop.

I take it you haven't used Win7? Everything, whether you use a classic skin or Aero, is iconified. Firefox doesn't have anything beyond the globe on it, etc etc.

One thing that Windows should have had is the option to add multiple desktops natively. Every other OS has it, and even the stupidest Mac person I know understood how it works. Disable it by default, but give us the option to enable it.

[Sidoh]

I don't think that's what he's talking about. Even though it's nothing but icons on the taskbar, it's still a taskbar.

[nslay]

While it is easy to point at GUI's like that and say "Those dummies at Microsoft!  They have no idea what they are doing with this...", making a UI that users intuitively grasp in a productive/useful and discoverable way is much harder than it looks.  Believe it or not, there is a lot of work that goes into the Windows UI design.  The current design works (very well) for a lot of people.  Yes, you can't please everyone simultaneously, but it's certainly possible to come up with a design that works smoothly for the vast majority of persons.

- S (Works at Microsoft, certainly not a UI designer myself though)

It isn't just Microsoft, it's also every other windowing system that follows the same 'Minimize', 'Maximize', and 'Close' button bundled together.  KDE and OS X are excellent examples. I'm confused why OS X is a victim of this error-prone design as Window Maker (which is supposed to be a NeXTSTEP look-alike) has the close and minimize button on the right and left respectively (no maximize button).

[nslay]

nslay:

It would be nice if windows could be shaded (i.e. pulled up like a lamp shade) or iconified. Iconfication is a much more general concept than a task bar and allows you to place your iconified windows anywhere on the desktop.

I take it you haven't used Win7? Everything, whether you use a classic skin or Aero, is iconified. Firefox doesn't have anything beyond the globe on it, etc etc.

One thing that Windows should have had is the option to add multiple desktops natively. Every other OS has it, and even the stupidest Mac person I know understood how it works. Disable it by default, but give us the option to enable it.

Give twm or Window Maker a go, then you'll know what I'm talking about.

I think twm is a better experience even though it's super ancient. That is the strangest windowing system you'll ever use.

[MyndFyre]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

It's the standard if they did it first and for much, much longer.

O RLY?  Not according to Wikipedia:

A de facto standard is a custom, convention, product, or system that has achieved a dominant position by public acceptance or market forces (such as early entrance to the market). De facto is a Latin phrase meaning "concerning the fact" or "in practice".

(Emphasis added).  I didn't even have to edit the page!

I think that's called clipping?

I would call this 'snapping' (clipping referring to blocking out other components of windows) but I think we're meaning the same thing.

[iago]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

It's the standard if they did it first and for much, much longer.

O RLY?  Not according to Wikipedia:

A de facto standard is a custom, convention, product, or system that has achieved a dominant position by public acceptance or market forces (such as early entrance to the market). De facto is a Latin phrase meaning "concerning the fact" or "in practice".

(Emphasis added).  I didn't even have to edit the page!

Yeah, and IMO that applies to what I was saying. Windows, at least at one time, was the De Facto Standard.. new OSes shouldn't have changed it, that just made it confusing.

I think that's called clipping?

I would call this 'snapping' (clipping referring to blocking out other components of windows) but I think we're meaning the same thing.

Yeah, we're talking about the same thing.

I'm pretty sure it was called clipping in some window manager I used, but snapping definitely sounds more correct.

[Blaze]

Gnome does it a lot better than WindowMaker.  WindowMaker actually pulls windows towards each other, while Gnome requires a little more push to get passed an edge of a window, allowing you to line things up easier.  This should seriously be an option in windows.

[MyndFyre]

Yeah, and IMO that applies to what I was saying. Windows, at least at one time, was the De Facto Standard.. new OSes shouldn't have changed it, that just made it confusing.

Oops, I misread.  I thought you were arguing with me, not Sidoh.

[Sidoh]

It's the type of detail that doesn't really make much of a difference. Even if I have to use both Windows/OS X, I don't find myself getting confused after using it for a pretty short period of time.

Granted - it's still annoying, but I don't really think it bothers me that much.

[iago]

It's the type of detail that doesn't really make much of a difference. Even if I have to use both Windows/OS X, I don't find myself getting confused after using it for a pretty short period of time.

Granted - it's still annoying, but I don't really think it bothers me that much.

I use Windows and almost never OS X. For the 3 or 4 times I've used it, it's annoyed me. Sure, it's something you can get used to, but I dislike change for the sake of change.

[Sidoh]

I'm not convinced that's what it is...

[Hitmen]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

[Sidoh]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

Decades? Seriously? Apple's OS is not that much older than Windows, if at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png

That's from 1984. I think the first version of Windows was 1985?

[iago]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

Decades? Seriously? Apple's OS is not that much older than Windows, if at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png

That's from 1984. I think the first version of Windows was 1985?

They didn't have the minimize/maximize/close buttons back then. I'm not sure what Mac OS got them, but Windows had them as far back as at least 3.1 (though they didn't have the 'close' button back then, they were still on the top-right).

Also, Apple's OS wasn't really relevant until like 2005.

[Sidoh]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

Decades? Seriously? Apple's OS is not that much older than Windows, if at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png

That's from 1984. I think the first version of Windows was 1985?

They didn't have the minimize/maximize/close buttons back then. I'm not sure what Mac OS got them, but Windows had them as far back as at least 3.1 (though they didn't have the 'close' button back then, they were still on the top-right).

Also, Apple's OS wasn't really relevant until like 2005.

Maybe so, but this is still a pretty clear demonstration that it wasn't change for the sake of change. They still had a button on the left corner of the window before Windows was released.