Author Topic: Database Backup Size Trend... (Read 9111 times)

iago · « **on:** October 22, 2006, 12:12:36 pm »

Here are the database backup sizes (for all my databases, the biggest by far being x86) ever since I've been doing an off-site backup (to Newby's computer):

Quote

11913233 2006-09-20
11883895 2006-09-21
11925220 2006-09-22
11942180 2006-09-23
11786364 2006-09-24
11671094 2006-09-25
11639622 2006-09-26
11652841 2006-09-27
11624742 2006-09-28
11565242 2006-09-29
11419406 2006-09-30
11481782 2006-10-01
11440649 2006-10-02
11381452 2006-10-03
11231198 2006-10-04
11259756 2006-10-05
11256370 2006-10-06
11262270 2006-10-07
11282502 2006-10-08
11281652 2006-10-09
11380596 2006-10-10
11233194 2006-10-11
11172562 2006-10-12
11166165 2006-10-13
11052575 2006-10-14
11035266 2006-10-15
10977348 2006-10-16
10941582 2006-10-17
10970075 2006-10-18
11009642 2006-10-19
10880674 2006-10-20
10757001 2006-10-21
10723845 2006-10-22

Notice what's funny? The backup size has a downward trend! The more posts here, the smaller my backup is!

Weird?

The only reason I can think of is that more text = less overall entropy = better compression...

Sidoh · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2006, 02:00:44 pm »

I would think there would be more entropy. Even still, I don't think less entropy with lots more text would decrease the size of the entire thing if you're still adding on text. If you have something that's very random and you add on something less random (without changing the original), I don't think the compressed outcome would be any smaller.

I'm not an expert on compression, but I still don't think that would be the case. That is weird, though. O_o

Do we have that feature enabled that deletes older posts?

iago · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2006, 03:17:18 pm »

No, unless SMF does it automatically, but I'm pretty sure that posts last forever.

You're right, the idea of increasing both entropy and data size probably doesn't explain it. But it's the best thing I could think of .... I suppose I can check if the actual uncompressed data is smaller..

And it's true, the uncompressed database dump is actually smaller.

My question is, why? The only databases that might have activity are SMF and Joe, and I doubt Joe's has daily activity. So SMF must be somehow shrinking....

MyndFyre · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2006, 04:13:04 pm »

Out of curiousity, why do you do a full backup and not a differential backup?

Newby · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2006, 04:19:36 pm »

Quote from: MyndFyre[x86] on October 22, 2006, 04:13:04 pm

Out of curiousity, why do you do a full backup and not a differential backup?

Incase his drive decides to die I suppose.

iago · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2006, 04:27:02 pm »

Quote from: MyndFyre[x86] on October 22, 2006, 04:13:04 pm

Out of curiousity, why do you do a full backup and not a differential backup?

Easier this way. If something happens, I just run "mysql -u root -p < backup.sql" and everything's back the way it was that day, no trouble. I don't 'have to worry about one backup file breaking and everything falling apart, or something.

I do a full database backup, and every month or so I delete the previous month. I don't need backups for archives or anything. So in the long term, full backups might take up less room

Joe · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2006, 09:52:30 pm »

My database hasn't had activity in around two weeks, I think, except hours logged in (I had my forums set as a homepage tab) and active viewers.

Sidoh · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2006, 10:08:02 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 22, 2006, 04:27:02 pm

Easier this way. If something happens, I just run "mysql -u root -p < backup.sql" and everything's back the way it was that day, no trouble. I don't 'have to worry about one backup file breaking and everything falling apart, or something.

I do a full database backup, and every month or so I delete the previous month. I don't need backups for archives or anything. So in the long term, full backups might take up less room

Haha, that's what I do too!

However, I don't delete previous months...

Quote

total 7.8G 32M 2006-07-16-backup.tar.bz2 132M 2006-08-11-backup.tar.bz2 87M 2006-09-05-backup.tar.bz2 85M 2006-09-30-backup.tar.bz2 436K 2006-07-16-sql-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-08-11-sql-backup.tar.bz2 476K 2006-09-05-sql-backup.tar.bz2 532K 2006-09-30-sql-backup.tar.bz2 62M 2006-07-17-backup.tar.bz2 60M 2006-08-12-backup.tar.bz2 94M 2006-09-06-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-01-backup.tar.bz2 436K 2006-07-17-sql-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-08-12-sql-backup.tar.bz2 476K 2006-09-06-sql-backup.tar.bz2 532K 2006-10-01-sql-backup.tar.bz2 51M 2006-07-18-backup.tar.bz2 56M 2006-08-13-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-07-backup.tar.bz2 95M 2006-10-02-backup.tar.bz2 436K 2006-07-18-sql-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-08-13-sql-backup.tar.bz2 480K 2006-09-07-sql-backup.tar.bz2 540K 2006-10-02-sql-backup.tar.bz2 51M 2006-07-19-backup.tar.bz2 55M 2006-08-14-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-08-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-03-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-07-19-sql-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-08-14-sql-backup.tar.bz2 480K 2006-09-08-sql-backup.tar.bz2 544K 2006-10-03-sql-backup.tar.bz2 48M 2006-07-20-backup.tar.bz2 77M 2006-08-15-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-09-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-04-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-07-20-sql-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-15-sql-backup.tar.bz2 484K 2006-09-09-sql-backup.tar.bz2 548K 2006-10-04-sql-backup.tar.bz2 70M 2006-07-21-backup.tar.bz2 75M 2006-08-16-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-10-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-05-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-07-21-sql-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-16-sql-backup.tar.bz2 484K 2006-09-10-sql-backup.tar.bz2 492K 2006-10-05-sql-backup.tar.bz2 141M 2006-07-22-backup.tar.bz2 77M 2006-08-17-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-11-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-06-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-07-22-sql-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-17-sql-backup.tar.bz2 484K 2006-09-11-sql-backup.tar.bz2 504K 2006-10-06-sql-backup.tar.bz2 109M 2006-07-23-backup.tar.bz2 77M 2006-08-18-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-12-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-07-backup.tar.bz2 400K 2006-07-23-sql-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-18-sql-backup.tar.bz2 488K 2006-09-12-sql-backup.tar.bz2 504K 2006-10-07-sql-backup.tar.bz2 42M 2006-07-24-backup.tar.bz2 80M 2006-08-19-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-13-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-08-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-24-sql-backup.tar.bz2 420K 2006-08-19-sql-backup.tar.bz2 488K 2006-09-13-sql-backup.tar.bz2 508K 2006-10-08-sql-backup.tar.bz2 129M 2006-07-25-backup.tar.bz2 84M 2006-08-20-backup.tar.bz2 97M 2006-09-14-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-09-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-25-sql-backup.tar.bz2 420K 2006-08-20-sql-backup.tar.bz2 492K 2006-09-14-sql-backup.tar.bz2 512K 2006-10-09-sql-backup.tar.bz2 113M 2006-07-26-backup.tar.bz2 84M 2006-08-21-backup.tar.bz2 46M 2006-09-15-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-10-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-26-sql-backup.tar.bz2 424K 2006-08-21-sql-backup.tar.bz2 492K 2006-09-15-sql-backup.tar.bz2 516K 2006-10-10-sql-backup.tar.bz2 41M 2006-07-27-backup.tar.bz2 84M 2006-08-22-backup.tar.bz2 46M 2006-09-16-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-11-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-27-sql-backup.tar.bz2 424K 2006-08-22-sql-backup.tar.bz2 496K 2006-09-16-sql-backup.tar.bz2 520K 2006-10-11-sql-backup.tar.bz2 67M 2006-07-28-backup.tar.bz2 84M 2006-08-23-backup.tar.bz2 94M 2006-09-17-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-12-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-28-sql-backup.tar.bz2 428K 2006-08-23-sql-backup.tar.bz2 496K 2006-09-17-sql-backup.tar.bz2 524K 2006-10-12-sql-backup.tar.bz2 7.1M 2006-07-29-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-24-backup.tar.bz2 93M 2006-09-18-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-13-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-29-sql-backup.tar.bz2 432K 2006-08-24-sql-backup.tar.bz2 500K 2006-09-18-sql-backup.tar.bz2 528K 2006-10-13-sql-backup.tar.bz2 75M 2006-07-31-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-25-backup.tar.bz2 93M 2006-09-19-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-14-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-07-31-sql-backup.tar.bz2 432K 2006-08-25-sql-backup.tar.bz2 504K 2006-09-19-sql-backup.tar.bz2 528K 2006-10-14-sql-backup.tar.bz2 106M 2006-08-01-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-26-backup.tar.bz2 94M 2006-09-20-backup.tar.bz2 36M 2006-10-15-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-01-sql-backup.tar.bz2 424K 2006-08-26-sql-backup.tar.bz2 504K 2006-09-20-sql-backup.tar.bz2 532K 2006-10-15-sql-backup.tar.bz2 25M 2006-08-02-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-27-backup.tar.bz2 43M 2006-09-21-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-16-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-02-sql-backup.tar.bz2 428K 2006-08-27-sql-backup.tar.bz2 504K 2006-09-21-sql-backup.tar.bz2 536K 2006-10-16-sql-backup.tar.bz2 78M 2006-08-03-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-28-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-09-22-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-17-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-03-sql-backup.tar.bz2 440K 2006-08-28-sql-backup.tar.bz2 508K 2006-09-22-sql-backup.tar.bz2 540K 2006-10-17-sql-backup.tar.bz2 70M 2006-08-04-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-29-backup.tar.bz2 40M 2006-09-23-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-18-backup.tar.bz2 404K 2006-08-04-sql-backup.tar.bz2 452K 2006-08-29-sql-backup.tar.bz2 508K 2006-09-23-sql-backup.tar.bz2 540K 2006-10-18-sql-backup.tar.bz2 104M 2006-08-05-backup.tar.bz2 88M 2006-08-30-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-09-24-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-19-backup.tar.bz2 412K 2006-08-05-sql-backup.tar.bz2 460K 2006-08-30-sql-backup.tar.bz2 512K 2006-09-24-sql-backup.tar.bz2 544K 2006-10-19-sql-backup.tar.bz2 9.9M 2006-08-06-backup.tar.bz2 90M 2006-08-31-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-09-25-backup.tar.bz2 9.8M 2006-10-20-backup.tar.bz2 412K 2006-08-06-sql-backup.tar.bz2 464K 2006-08-31-sql-backup.tar.bz2 520K 2006-09-25-sql-backup.tar.bz2 548K 2006-10-20-sql-backup.tar.bz2 31M 2006-08-07-backup.tar.bz2 79M 2006-09-01-backup.tar.bz2 46M 2006-09-26-backup.tar.bz2 66M 2006-10-21-backup.tar.bz2 412K 2006-08-07-sql-backup.tar.bz2 468K 2006-09-01-sql-backup.tar.bz2 524K 2006-09-26-sql-backup.tar.bz2 548K 2006-10-21-sql-backup.tar.bz2 72M 2006-08-08-backup.tar.bz2 79M 2006-09-02-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-09-27-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-10-22-backup.tar.bz2 412K 2006-08-08-sql-backup.tar.bz2 468K 2006-09-02-sql-backup.tar.bz2 524K 2006-09-27-sql-backup.tar.bz2 552K 2006-10-22-sql-backup.tar.bz2 76M 2006-08-09-backup.tar.bz2 94M 2006-09-03-backup.tar.bz2 86M 2006-09-28-backup.tar.bz2 8.0K homed/ 412K 2006-08-09-sql-backup.tar.bz2 472K 2006-09-03-sql-backup.tar.bz2 528K 2006-09-28-sql-backup.tar.bz2 4.0K remote/ 99M 2006-08-10-backup.tar.bz2 94M 2006-09-04-backup.tar.bz2 96M 2006-09-29-backup.tar.bz2 16K web/ 412K 2006-08-10-sql-backup.tar.bz2 476K 2006-09-04-sql-backup.tar.bz2 528K 2006-09-29-sql-backup.tar.bz2

iago · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2006, 10:23:44 pm »

Do you keep the backups on the same system as the database?

I do my backups to Newby now. I also gave Newby access to my domain. That way, if anything happens to me for whatever reason that I can no longer maintain the forums with no advance notice, he can easily fail over to somewhere else.

Newby · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2006, 10:30:55 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 22, 2006, 10:23:44 pm

I do my backups to Newby now. I also gave Newby access to my domain. That way, if anything happens to me for whatever reason that I can no longer maintain the forums with no advance notice, he can easily fail over to somewhere else.

Are you hinting that you plan to disappear/die? If so, I better make plans so incase you do randomly disappear/die I can get the forums up ASAP and make a memorial thread for your disappearance.

Sidoh · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2006, 10:47:16 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 22, 2006, 10:23:44 pm

Do you keep the backups on the same system as the database?

I do my backups to Newby now. I also gave Newby access to my domain. That way, if anything happens to me for whatever reason that I can no longer maintain the forums with no advance notice, he can easily fail over to somewhere else.

Yes. Same system, different hard drive. I'm not running anything vitally important to anyone but me, so I don't see the point of sending the database dumps somewhere else. I could set it up pretty easily to scp them to the VM I have running on my machine here, but I don't really want to!

iago · « **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2006, 09:38:48 am »

Quote from: Newby on October 22, 2006, 10:30:55 pm

Are you hinting that you plan to disappear/die? If so, I better make plans so incase you do randomly disappear/die I can get the forums up ASAP and make a memorial thread for your disappearance.

I don't have any plans to, but that's not the kind of thing you plan

Quote from: Sidoh on October 22, 2006, 10:47:16 pm

Yes. Same system, different hard drive. I'm not running anything vitally important to anyone but me, so I don't see the point of sending the database dumps somewhere else. I could set it up pretty easily to scp them to the VM I have running on my machine here, but I don't really want to!

So if you get hacked or the building it's in burns down, you're pwned

But yeah, it's all about what you have to lose. I'd be rather upset if I lost old data from these forums.

Nate · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2006, 11:04:36 am »

PMs but that would huge numbers of PMs. And you would all have to be deleting some everyday.

iago · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2006, 11:22:06 am »

Yeah, there would have to be more text being sent and deleted in PMs than text posted to the forum..

Sidoh · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2006, 12:27:35 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 23, 2006, 09:38:48 am

So if you get hacked or the building it's in burns down, you're pwned

But yeah, it's all about what you have to lose. I'd be rather upset if I lost old data from these forums.

No. Because again, I'd be much more concerned with the building burning down. I'm not too worried about getting hacked, either. That's not a challenge, by the way.

iago · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2006, 12:29:08 pm »

Quote from: Sidoh on October 23, 2006, 12:27:35 pm

I'm not too worried about getting hacked, either. That's not a challenge, by the way.

Damn!

Joe · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2006, 05:23:32 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 23, 2006, 09:38:48 am

I don't have any plans to, but that's not the kind of thing you plan

I think the last thing that you should worry about for dying would be maintaining the forums. I don't know about the others, but I have every active, posting x86 member on my buddy list right now (even those I don't talk to). Newby's hosted several servers before, and has fast enough internet to do it, and we could easily get the word around. But yeah, whatever.

iago · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2006, 05:40:49 pm »

Quote from: Joe[x86] on October 23, 2006, 05:23:32 pm

Quote from: iago on October 23, 2006, 09:38:48 am
I don't have any plans to, but that's not the kind of thing you plan

I think the last thing that you should worry about for dying would be maintaining the forums. I don't know about the others, but I have every active, posting x86 member on my buddy list right now (even those I don't talk to). Newby's hosted several servers before, and has fast enough internet to do it, and we could easily get the word around. But yeah, whatever.

It's not necessarily about dying. There can be a major flood here (my city is built on a major flood plain) which could render my internet dead for an undetermined amount of time. There can be war, famine, pestilance, death, or poison monkeys. You never know.

It's always good to have a backup plan.

rabbit · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2006, 06:17:40 pm »

Canada? War? WTF?

iago · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:18:28 pm »

It's happened. We beat you, remember?

Sidoh · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:04:31 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 23, 2006, 07:18:28 pm

It's happened. We beat you, remember?

... No? O_o

iago · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2006, 10:33:15 am »

Quote from: Sidoh on October 23, 2006, 08:04:31 pm

... No? O_o

Quote

The War of 1812 was fought between the United States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and its colonies in British North America (see Upper Canada and Lower Canada) from 1812 to 1815 on land and sea. The Americans had hoped for a quick win as Britain was at war with France under Napoleon. Despite several notable successes by US frigates and the menace of American privateers to British trade, the Royal Navy established a strict blockade of American trade causing economic hardship; on land the US invasion of Canada was swiftly repulsed and British forces counterattacked across the border, burning Washington and occupying the territories that would later become the state of Maine, but unsuccessfully attacking some well defended major cities. The war ended with the Treaty of Ghent, restoring North America to status quo ante bellum.

...

Quote

Having destroyed Washington's public buildings, including the White House and the Treasury, the British army next moved to capture Baltimore, a busy port and a key base for American privateers.

We occupied your territory and burnt down your white house.. we so kicked your ass

MyndFyre · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2006, 11:27:19 am »

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 10:33:15 am

We occupied your territory and burnt down your white house.. we so kicked your ass

I'm pretty sure we won the War of 1812. As I recall, the war was officially over, and so when a ship full of elite British marines hit the port at Baton Rouge and had no way of knowing that we'd reached a treaty, and so we kicked their asses even two weeks after the war (led by Andrew Jackson no less).

By the way, the house wasn't the White House *before* the War or 1812. It got that name because we whitewashed it *after* it was burned. So you didn't kick our ass - you contributed to our elitist culture!

Chavo · « **Reply #23 on:** October 24, 2006, 02:22:49 pm »

buuuuurn

But yea, we definately won the war of 1812. Canada != Britain and its Colonies.

iago · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2006, 02:33:41 pm »

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 02:22:49 pm

Canada != Britain and its Colonies.

Uh, what?

In 1812, Upper Canada and Lower Canada were British colonies.

Blaze · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:27:19 pm »

Quote from: MyndFyre[x86] on October 24, 2006, 11:27:19 am

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 10:33:15 am
We occupied your territory and burnt down your white house.. we so kicked your ass
I'm pretty sure we won the War of 1812. As I recall, the war was officially over, and so when a ship full of elite British marines hit the port at Baton Rouge and had no way of knowing that we'd reached a treaty, and so we kicked their asses even two weeks after the war (led by Andrew Jackson no less).

That doesn't mean you won, and that sounds like the "America has never lost a war" elitist attitude.

rabbit · « **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:35:08 pm »

*cough*vietnamkorea*/cough*

Anyway, Canada had one war. 200 years ago. We've been kicking ass since birth.

Chavo · « **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:43:35 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 02:33:41 pm

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 02:22:49 pm
Canada != Britain and its Colonies.
Uh, what?

In 1812, Upper Canada and Lower Canada were British colonies.

Canada as a country is not the same as Upper and Lower Canada as British Colonies. If we were at war with a colony of Britain, we were at war with Britain...they called the shots, not the provincial government.

Hitmen · « **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:50:43 pm »

I didn't know the war of 1812 was caused by database backup trends.

PS: you people argue about the stupidest shit ever.

Sidoh · « **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:52:23 pm »

Quote from: Hitmen on October 24, 2006, 04:50:43 pm

PS: you people argue about the stupidest shit ever.

Re: PS: We don't care what you think.

iago · « **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2006, 07:24:33 pm »

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 04:43:35 pm

Canada as a country is not the same as Upper and Lower Canada as British Colonies. If we were at war with a colony of Britain, we were at war with Britain...they called the shots, not the provincial government.

Canada has only existed since 1867, so it wasn't the Canadian government who fought the war. But it was the people and the territory that would form Canada, so it was basically Canada.

Chavo · « **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2006, 08:02:03 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 07:24:33 pm

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 04:43:35 pm
Canada as a country is not the same as Upper and Lower Canada as British Colonies. If we were at war with a colony of Britain, we were at war with Britain...they called the shots, not the provincial government.
Canada has only existed since 1867, so it wasn't the Canadian government who fought the war. But it was the people and the territory that would form Canada, so it was basically Canada.

I disagree. Governments usually tend to fight wars, not the people living in the area of fighting.

iago · « **Reply #32 on:** October 24, 2006, 08:19:27 pm »

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 08:02:03 pm

I disagree. Governments usually tend to fight wars, not the people living in the area of fighting.

Really? Why isn't George Bush running around Iraq with a gun, then?

<edit> haven't you heard the song? "Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war / why should they go out to fight, they leave that role to the poor"

rabbit · « **Reply #33 on:** October 24, 2006, 08:42:16 pm »

Cause he knows friendly fire is on.

Blaze · « **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2006, 12:26:41 am »

Quote from: rabbit on October 24, 2006, 08:42:16 pm

Cause he knows friendly fire is on.

Speaking of friendly fire... It's on in the Middle East server... but you guys keep forgetting on the Canadian Soldiers.. $:-\$

Chavo · « **Reply #35 on:** October 25, 2006, 09:37:01 am »

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 08:19:27 pm

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 08:02:03 pm
I disagree. Governments usually tend to fight wars, not the people living in the area of fighting.
Really? Why isn't George Bush running around Iraq with a gun, then?

<edit> haven't you heard the song? "Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war / why should they go out to fight, they leave that role to the poor"

George Bush isn't a government....

Sidoh · « **Reply #36 on:** October 25, 2006, 11:12:34 am »

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 08:19:27 pm

<edit> haven't you heard the song? "Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war / why should they go out to fight, they leave that role to the poor"

Shouldn't the answer to that question be obvious? ;o

iago · « **Reply #37 on:** October 25, 2006, 01:29:24 pm »

Quote from: unTactical on October 25, 2006, 09:37:01 am

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 08:19:27 pm
Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 08:02:03 pm
I disagree. Governments usually tend to fight wars, not the people living in the area of fighting.
Really? Why isn't George Bush running around Iraq with a gun, then?

<edit> haven't you heard the song? "Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war / why should they go out to fight, they leave that role to the poor"
George Bush isn't a government....

Ok, then can you name some politicians that arerighting, then?

At least in movies, I see lots of soldiers fighting, but I don't see any politicians... maybe I'm watching the wrong movies?

Chavo · « **Reply #38 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:04:58 pm »

I don't know why you are being difficult. You know full well what I mean.

iago · « **Reply #39 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:26:45 pm »

I know that politicians hide themselves away, since they only started the war.

I also know that the people who lived where Canada now is are my fore-fathers, and they fought your country and burnt down the house-that-was-to-be-white. I don't care if it was politically controlled by England, the fact is that it was to become Canada, and the people who lived there are the people who eventually lived in Canada.

Politicians start wars, but they don't fight wars.

Sidoh · « **Reply #40 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:28:15 pm »

And architects desgin buildings but they often don't build them. What's your point?

Chavo · « **Reply #41 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:37:29 pm »

Quote from: iago on October 25, 2006, 05:26:45 pm

I know that politicians hide themselves away, since they only started the war.

I also know that the people who lived where Canada now is are my fore-fathers, and they fought your country and burnt down the house-that-was-to-be-white. I don't care if it was politically controlled by England, the fact is that it was to become Canada, and the people who lived there are the people who eventually lived in Canada.

Politicians start wars, but they don't fight wars.

By that logic, we could say Germany lost the Revolutionary war since many of the soldiers were Hessians.

iago · « **Reply #42 on:** October 25, 2006, 07:02:21 pm »

Quote from: Sidoh on October 25, 2006, 05:28:15 pm

And architects desgin buildings but they often don't build them. What's your point?

My point is that it was Canada that fought in the Battle of 1812. Not Britain.

Quote from: unTactical on October 24, 2006, 08:02:03 pm

Quote from: iago on October 24, 2006, 07:24:33 pm
it was basically Canada.
I disagree.

Chavo · « **Reply #43 on:** October 25, 2006, 07:33:28 pm »

Your definition of 'basically Canada' is obviously flawed

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