[Serious Discussion] Marijuana and Surrounding Issues

[Towelie]

This is a thread testing an idea of having a Serious Discussion Board or topics marked to be so. It WILL be heavily moderated.

***PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING RULES BEFORE POSTING***
1. This is a Serious Discussion thread-- only intellectual arguments and discussion are permitted, and they are to be done so in a civilized manner.
2. Make a concise point. Use sufficient evidence where needed, and support your opinion fully leaving nothing unanswered.
3. Clearly draw a conclusion. (Are you following the pattern yet?)
4. DO NOT GO OFF-TOPIC.
5. No flaming, trolling, or flame baiting is allowed. This is strictly prohibited.
6. Any post that does not contribute to the thread will be deleted.
7. Speak using correct punctuation/grammar/spelling
8. Finally, use your common sense and judgment while posting. I know everyone has this.

Now that all of that has been said...


The topic for this discussion will be the legality of marijuana and its surrounding issues. Here are some questions to get you started:

Do you believe marijuana should be legalized?
Should it be used for medical purposes only?
What about the "war" on marijuana?
Incarcerations due to it?
Health problems to the society?
etc.

Remember, this is an intellectual discussion!

[skip]

I am a strong proponent for the legalization of marijuana and I believe it should be used for recreational activities, too, rather than just for medicinal purposes. However, I think it should be highly regulated such as placing an age requirement and no driving after smoking. Maybe even limiting how much you can use at one point (I don't see how they would enforce that, but...).

Despite the fact that Marijuana is illegal, it is so easy to get your hands on it. It's like jaywalking. It's illegal, yet everyone does it. It might as well be legal and tax it to hell, so the government can get at least some money from it.

[rabbit]

I had this debate in communications :D

Anyway, marijuana should remain illegal, and shouldn't even be permitted for medicinal use.  The argument that "it's readily available so it should be legal" is terrible in every way.  By that argument, murder, driving at whatever speed you want, rape, and many other things should be legalized.  Not to mention the fact that I am strongly against ALL brain altering substances (tobacco and alcohol too).  Regardless of WHY it was made illegal, it should STAY illegal.

[CrAz3D]

Regardless of WHY it was made illegal, it should STAY illegal.

Like black people staying slaves?  If there is no reason to maintain it's current status as a Class C drug, we should not keep it as such.
rabbit, do you drink sodas?  Caffeine is a brain altering drug and probably has the widest use.  Are you against soda?  (I'm gonna guess no by the following quote)

I drink Soda.

Creating a law against a drug for (A) no apparent reason; and (B) because it alters the mind, is foolish.  As people we should make the choice whether to drink soda or smoke pot.  And as a patient in a hospital, mind altering drugs freaking ROCK when you just broke your knee, collar bone, fractured pelvis and your skull.


Marijuana hurts only the user.  Second hand smoke can cause issues, much like cigarettes, but smoking is pretty much illegal everywhere but your house (sometimes not even then) so those issues are small.
The benefits of marijuana (pain and nausea relief for those with terminal illness and on chemo) FAR out way any downfall that it might have.

[Towelie]

I had this debate in communications :D

Anyway, marijuana should remain illegal, and shouldn't even be permitted for medicinal use.  The argument that "it's readily available so it should be legal" is terrible in every way.  By that argument, murder, driving at whatever speed you want, rape, and many other things should be legalized.  Not to mention the fact that I am strongly against ALL brain altering substances (tobacco and alcohol too).  Regardless of WHY it was made illegal, it should STAY illegal.

Why do you feel it must be illegal? You seemed to have left out that point. Why should others not be able to use marijuana just because you choose not to (or I assume you choose not to)? Other people using this drug does not harm you. The government could save a TON of money by legalizing it, and also earn a huge revenue due to taxation.

[iago]

The government could save a TON of money by legalizing it

I'm not entirely sure that that's true. Due to privatized prisons, they can basically use prisoners for slave labour. As such, for each person in relatively good shape that's in prison, they could be making money. As such, it may be in the government's best interest to imprison marijuana users. Of course, that's a conspiracy theory approach, but I don't think it's entirely unreasonable.

To tie that back to the argument, if certain people make more money off imprisoning pot smokers than they lose from the investigation cost, then there may be no financial motivation for laws to change, as you're suggesting.

[MyndFyre]

It's illegal, yet everyone does it.

Not everyone does it.

[CrAz3D]

The government could save a TON of money by legalizing it

I'm not entirely sure that that's true. Due to privatized prisons, they can basically use prisoners for slave labour. As such, for each person in relatively good shape that's in prison, they could be making money. As such, it may be in the government's best interest to imprison marijuana users. Of course, that's a conspiracy theory approach, but I don't think it's entirely unreasonable.

To tie that back to the argument, if certain people make more money off imprisoning pot smokers than they lose from the investigation cost, then there may be no financial motivation for laws to change, as you're suggesting.

I believe that government regulation of pot for consistency and safety would lead to a bigger pot industry than currently exists.  The legality of pot would make it much cheaper, then government could tax it a fair bit.  In the end, pot would be cheaper than now even with the pot tax.  It'd rock.

[skip]

It's illegal, yet everyone does it.

Not everyone does it.

Haha, sorry, I meant that it was so easy to get your hands upon. But I mean, it does seems as though a good number of people do it. I guess I'm just hanging with the wrong crowd ;). lol.

Hahaha, just imagine walking into a store... "Can I get  a gram of <WEED STRAND>?" instead of "Can I get a pack of <INSERT CIGARETTES HERE>?"

[rabbit]

And what about the health detriments?  Back before tobacco was handled by corporations, people smoked tobacco.  Nowadays, cigarettes, cigars, and other tobacco products contain poisonous chemicals.  Note among those chemicals are nicotine, cyanide, and DDT.  Nicotine has been shown to be more toxic than cocaine.  There's also cyanide, which is widely known to be a useful tool for murder, suicide, and assassination.  There's also DDT, which was banned in the US in 1962 because it was so damaging to the environment and workers who sprayed it.  And yet cigarettes are still legal.  What's to say that marijuana won't follow the same path?  Odds are it will, since it's cheaper to put all that crap in there.  By those ends, the illegal importation, dealing, and using of "pure" marijuana would still most likely be prevalent.

[Armin]

Anyway, marijuana should remain illegal, and shouldn't even be permitted for medicinal use.  The argument that "it's readily available so it should be legal" is terrible in every way.  By that argument, murder, driving at whatever speed you want, rape, and many other things should be legalized.  Not to mention the fact that I am strongly against ALL brain altering substances (tobacco and alcohol too).  Regardless of WHY it was made illegal, it should STAY illegal.

Why should the law be based on your personal beliefs? What ever happened to freedom of choice, especially when some people, including myself, believe certain drugs can have positive effects when used in moderation?

If used correctly (in moderation and within the right environment), marijuana will help a person concentrate on a certain issue, which in most cases (I've talked to a lot of people, and this is also true for myself) will cause you to notice things about yourself you normally wouldn't notice. Examples would be, "I need to grow the fuck up. I need to get a job. I need to be more responsible. I need to stop being an asshole. I need to stop living my life in fear." It can even allow you to think more clearly about bigger issues such as politics, religion, etc.

"While the Controlled Substances Act was being drafted in a House committee in 1970, [the] Assistant Secretary of Health [...] had recommended that marijuana temporarily be placed in Schedule I, the most restrictive category of drugs, pending the Commission's (the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse) report. On March 22, 1972, the Commission's chairman [...] presented a report to Congress and the public entitled "Marijuana, A Signal of Misunderstanding," which favored ending marijuana prohibition and adopting other methods to discourage use.

[T]he Commission recommended 'a social control policy seeking to discourage marihuana use, while concentrating primarily on the prevention of heavy and very heavy use.' The report noted that society can provide incentives for certain behavior without prosecuting the unwilling, citing the example that 'the family unit and the institution of marriage are preferred means of group-living and child-rearing in our society. As a society, we are not neutral. We officially encourage matrimony by giving married couples favorable tax treatment; but we do not compel people to get married.'" Source: Wikipedia, National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

Here are a few quotes from the report commissioned by President Richard M. Nixon, titled, "Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding":

"Intermittent marihuana users, like the experimenters, are generally conventional in most respects. They are more liberal politically and socially and they tend to stress education for personal improvement rather than for recognition or high grades. Like many non-users, these individuals are likely to be self-expressive, intellectually and culturally oriented, creative, and flexible. Placing a high value on experimentation and responsible, independent decision-making, they often manifest a desire to search for new experiences, resulting in some behaviors which depart from the norms of the larger society. Often accompanying their search is a sense of uncertainty about the future."

"since the beginning of our official life, we have grappled with the threshold question: why has the use of marihuana reached problem status in the public mind? [...] Many see the drug as fostering a counterculture which conflicts with basic moral precepts as well as with the operating functions of our society."

"Our youth cannot understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact. [...] These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff. And the disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for law and the system in general. [...] On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background."

The commission was telling Nixon, in effect, that the real marijuana problem wasn't the drug, but the war on the drug. The war was alienating young people, turning "straight" society against the counterculture, and leading police to use pot laws as political weapons. Marijuana prohibition, the commission concluded, is not in the national interest.



I'll post part two of this post later so I don't discourage the reading of this already large block of text.

[Towelie]

And what about the health detriments?  Back before tobacco was handled by corporations, people smoked tobacco.  Nowadays, cigarettes, cigars, and other tobacco products contain poisonous chemicals.  Note among those chemicals are nicotine, cyanide, and DDT.  Nicotine has been shown to be more toxic than cocaine.  There's also cyanide, which is widely known to be a useful tool for murder, suicide, and assassination.  There's also DDT, which was banned in the US in 1962 because it was so damaging to the environment and workers who sprayed it.  And yet cigarettes are still legal.  What's to say that marijuana won't follow the same path?  Odds are it will, since it's cheaper to put all that crap in there.  By those ends, the illegal importation, dealing, and using of "pure" marijuana would still most likely be prevalent.

There will still be companies who do NOT add chemicals to their marijuana, and sell it as so, and they would probably get more business due to this-- you can figure out what happens from there. Again, it is the person's choice to hurt his own health, why should you make that choice for him? I don't see freedom in that.

[CrAz3D]

And what about the health detriments?  Back before tobacco was handled by corporations, people smoked tobacco.  Nowadays, cigarettes, cigars, and other tobacco products contain poisonous chemicals.  Note among those chemicals are nicotine, cyanide, and DDT.  Nicotine has been shown to be more toxic than cocaine.  There's also cyanide, which is widely known to be a useful tool for murder, suicide, and assassination.  There's also DDT, which was banned in the US in 1962 because it was so damaging to the environment and workers who sprayed it.  And yet cigarettes are still legal.  What's to say that marijuana won't follow the same path?  Odds are it will, since it's cheaper to put all that crap in there.  By those ends, the illegal importation, dealing, and using of "pure" marijuana would still most likely be prevalent.

Because we know all of that about cigarettes.  Do you know what is in pot now?  No.  No one does.  That is even less safe than knowing dirty shit is in there.

[Explicit]

And what about the health detriments? Back before tobacco was handled by corporations, people smoked tobacco. Nowadays, cigarettes, cigars, and other tobacco products contain poisonous chemicals. Note among those chemicals are nicotine, cyanide, and DDT. Nicotine has been shown to be more toxic than cocaine. There's also cyanide, which is widely known to be a useful tool for murder, suicide, and assassination. There's also DDT, which was banned in the US in 1962 because it was so damaging to the environment and workers who sprayed it. And yet cigarettes are still legal. What's to say that marijuana won't follow the same path? Odds are it will, since it's cheaper to put all that crap in there. By those ends, the illegal importation, dealing, and using of "pure" marijuana would still most likely be prevalent.

Because we know all of that about cigarettes. Do you know what is in pot now? No. No one does. That is even less safe than knowing dirty shit is in there.

You do realize that marijuana is only dangerous when there's a fungus growing on it, right? Anyone who smokes marijuana at all examines the buds up close anyhow, so they'll be able to recognize the off-ness of its appearance. What they decide to do with it post-inspection is entirely up to them.

Addtionally, I have never heard of anyone overdosing on marijuana. Sure, there are some mishaps that may happen as a result of smoking it (i.e. a car accident or something), but I don't see how that would be any different in terms of results than when consuming alcohol.

*shrug*

[Warrior]

Addtionally, I have never heard of anyone overdosing on marijuana. Sure, there are some mishaps that may happen as a result of smoking it (i.e. a car accident or something), but I don't see how that would be any different in terms of results than when consuming alcohol.

It's impossible to overdose on marijuana.

"A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response."

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/mj_overdose.htm