More Microsoft Licensing fun!

[iago]

"An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required."

More information
Official Microsoft document

[Sidoh]

I actually do see their reasoning behind this.  I'm pretty sure that tech support would comply if a good enough reason was given, though. :)

[iago]

I actually do see their reasoning behind this.  I'm pretty sure that tech support would comply if a good enough reason was given, though. :)

Well, the complaint was made by companies who upgrade their PCs and discover Windows stops working.  Upgrading a couple thousand PCs could get extremely expensive. 

[Ergot]

I thought this was old? Thankfully, when my dad gave my sister a new mobo/cpu, the mobo was just a new revision of the same mobo :O

[deadly7]

I think this is the stupidest thing to date Microsoft has done.  Seriously.  They're apparently not satisfied enough that someone is spending $400 on their software, but when that person upgrades because his current computer is shitty, they have to buy their OS again?  If that's not what "users must obtain a new license" means, feel free to correct me.  Just how I interpreted it.

[MyndFyre]

I've personally never had to deal with this.

[Sidoh]

I think this is the stupidest thing to date Microsoft has done.  Seriously.  They're apparently not satisfied enough that someone is spending $400 on their software, but when that person upgrades because his current computer is shitty, they have to buy their OS again?  If that's not what "users must obtain a new license" means, feel free to correct me.  Just how I interpreted it.

I think they've done far stupider things.

Is this the inherent ruling?  If you an upgrade a PC, there's absolutely no way it'll work?

[iago]

Is this the inherent ruling?  If you an upgrade a PC, there's absolutely no way it'll work?

If you upgrade the motherboard, OEM versions of Windows will no longer work.  As far as I know, that's the absolute ruling. 

[Sidoh]

If you upgrade the motherboard, OEM versions of Windows will no longer work.  As far as I know, that's the absolute ruling. 

Bummer.  My friend always gets away with claiming his hard drive crashed.  He calls them, tells them that and they give him a new key.

[Quik]

For the personal user, this isn't an issue. Microsoft requires such high standards of hardware (compared to some Linux distros or Unix / variations) that the personal user would have to be running something less current than Windows XP to have much of a reason to upgrade the motherboard.

[Newby]

We argued about this on sb.net (me and Warrior).

In the end, we came down to "it's the way M$ licenses it" so I guess M$ just sucks the fat one.

[iago]

For the personal user, this isn't an issue. Microsoft requires such high standards of hardware (compared to some Linux distros or Unix / variations) that the personal user would have to be running something less current than Windows XP to have much of a reason to upgrade the motherboard.

You could easily run XP on a 1.5ghz and upgrade to a 3.2ghz processor, which would likely require a new board. 

[Quik]

For the personal user, this isn't an issue. Microsoft requires such high standards of hardware (compared to some Linux distros or Unix / variations) that the personal user would have to be running something less current than Windows XP to have much of a reason to upgrade the motherboard.

You could easily run XP on a 1.5ghz and upgrade to a 3.2ghz processor, which would likely require a new board. 

If you're that far in the past, you shouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for the OS. From all the money you've saved not upgrading your system for 10 years, you can afford it.

Yeah, I realize my logic is flawed, but I still think that it's not too much of an issue for home users, especially those intelligent/daring enough not to use Windows or not to pay an arm and a leg.

[rabbit]

If you're not buying mobos OEM, it doesn't matter.

[deadly7]

For the personal user, this isn't an issue. Microsoft requires such high standards of hardware (compared to some Linux distros or Unix / variations) that the personal user would have to be running something less current than Windows XP to have much of a reason to upgrade the motherboard.

You could easily run XP on a 1.5ghz and upgrade to a 3.2ghz processor, which would likely require a new board. 

If you're that far in the past, you shouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for the OS. From all the money you've saved not upgrading your system for 10 years, you can afford it.

Yeah, I realize my logic is flawed, but I still think that it's not too much of an issue for home users, especially those intelligent/daring enough not to use Windows or not to pay an arm and a leg.

I'm running 1.15GHz and I'm upgrading to a 2.6(or 2.4, don't remember)GHz San Diego 4000+.. I'm not able to pay for it out of my own pocket, so really *I* have saved nothing.  Not to mention that the money saved has gone back into mortgage, tuition for my brother's college, etc.  I think your logic is highly flawed, but that's just me.

[Warrior]

If you upgrade the motherboard, OEM versions of Windows will no longer work.  As far as I know, that's the absolute ruling. 

Bummer.  My friend always gets away with claiming his hard drive crashed.  He calls them, tells them that and they give him a new key.

I've said that and it's always worked. ;)

[Quik]

For the personal user, this isn't an issue. Microsoft requires such high standards of hardware (compared to some Linux distros or Unix / variations) that the personal user would have to be running something less current than Windows XP to have much of a reason to upgrade the motherboard.

You could easily run XP on a 1.5ghz and upgrade to a 3.2ghz processor, which would likely require a new board. 

If you're that far in the past, you shouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for the OS. From all the money you've saved not upgrading your system for 10 years, you can afford it.

Yeah, I realize my logic is flawed, but I still think that it's not too much of an issue for home users, especially those intelligent/daring enough not to use Windows or not to pay an arm and a leg.

I'm running 1.15GHz and I'm upgrading to a 2.6(or 2.4, don't remember)GHz San Diego 4000+.. I'm not able to pay for it out of my own pocket, so really *I* have saved nothing.  Not to mention that the money saved has gone back into mortgage, tuition for my brother's college, etc.  I think your logic is highly flawed, but that's just me.

Please read my post. I know it's flawed, I'm just trying to give you some things to think about.

[Warrior]

Additionally a new mobo is as close to a new PC you can get..

[iago]

When it comes to stuff involving my operating system's functioning, I'd say that getting a new hard drive is as close as you can get.  But that's just me. 

[Warrior]

So they should make it with every new HD it's a new PC?

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57350#msg57350 date=1140897905]
So they should make it with every new HD it's a new PC?

That's not what he was saying.  Anyway, I think it's stupid that there's no exception to this.  You bought the license for that computer.  It's effectively the same computer with new components.  Why should you have to pay for the OS again?

[iago]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57350#msg57350 date=1140897905]
So they should make it with every new HD it's a new PC?

No, with every HD it's a new operating system. 

[Eric]

Buy retail.

[Warrior]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57350#msg57350 date=1140897905]
So they should make it with every new HD it's a new PC?

No, with every HD it's a new operating system. 

So you need a new license then right?

[iago]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57377#msg57377 date=1140900043]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57350#msg57350 date=1140897905]
So they should make it with every new HD it's a new PC?

No, with every HD it's a new operating system. 

So you need a new license then right?

If you keep the old harddrive, then yes.  If you're planning on destroying the harddrive, then you can phone Microsoft and alert them to the travesty.  But in any case, if you replace the harddrive then you have to re-install Windows anyway, so same key or different it makes sense that your OS stops working. 

No matter what you do, if you replace your motherboard, it shouldn't cause your OS, which is firmly attached the harddrive and not at all attached to the motherboard, to stop working. 

[Warrior]

But replacing the motherboard is basically replacing a new PC. I mean withought the Mobo..well you know..it isn't "Mother" for nothing.

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57436#msg57436 date=1140905586]
But replacing the motherboard is basically replacing a new PC. I mean withought the Mobo..well you know..it isn't "Mother" for nothing.

But it's not.  You may have to re-install the operating system in order to re-instate drivers, but it's not replacing the PC.  A motherboard can be as inexpensive as $40 (cheaper, if you look hard enough).  That's pretty far from the whole PC.

[Ergot]

How about if the OS keeps track of what you replace, and when you have replaced the original equipment it'll stop working :O why didn't they think of that eh?!

[Sidoh]

How about if the OS keeps track of what you replace, and when you have replaced the original equipment it'll stop working :O why didn't they think of that eh?!

They have.  Have you ever worked on one of the newer (last 4 years or so) retail computers?  By retail, I mean Dell, Gateway, eMachines, etc.

[Ergot]

How about if the OS keeps track of what you replace, and when you have replaced the original equipment it'll stop working :O why didn't they think of that eh?!

They have.  Have you ever worked on one of the newer (last 4 years or so) retail computers?  By retail, I mean Dell, Gateway, eMachines, etc.

Uhh... I've never worked extensively with them, I have replaced a CD drive on a Dell PC. Pain the ass .

[Warrior]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57436#msg57436 date=1140905586]
But replacing the motherboard is basically replacing a new PC. I mean withought the Mobo..well you know..it isn't "Mother" for nothing.

But it's not.  You may have to re-install the operating system in order to re-instate drivers, but it's not replacing the PC.  A motherboard can be as inexpensive as $40 (cheaper, if you look hard enough).  That's pretty far from the whole PC.

You're replacing one of the most crucial PC parts..

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57465#msg57465 date=1140910093]
You're replacing one of the most crucial PC parts..

But it's not a whole new PC.  It doesn't matter how crucial the part is.  In fact, I'd consider several other components equally important.  The CPU, Memory and Hard drive are vital for the performance of the computer.  There's no reason that replacing any one component of the computer should vindicate the requirement for a repurchace of a software license.  I can understand their security measures, but once this is confirmed, I believe they should re-validate the software at no charge.

[Warrior]

Generally if you buy an OEM edition it's meant to be bundled with something like a Dell.
Now if you update the Mobo for anything other than a defect then PC is no longer either accepted by Dell Warranty nor is it a Valid OEM license since it isn't the original hardware the OEM was shipped with. This is because Windows is sold to companies at a reduced price and they dont want people just transfering Windows (Like you can do with FPP).
If you usually have the need to upgrade a mobo, you have Windows FPP and not OEM. Really, this is meant for buying these types of PCs in bulk for something like an office or a school.

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57467#msg57467 date=1140910931]
Generally if you buy an OEM edition it's meant to be bundled with something like a Dell.
Now if you update the Mobo for anything other than a defect then PC is no longer either accepted by Dell Warranty nor is it a Valid OEM license since it isn't the original hardware the OEM was shipped with. This is because Windows is sold to companies at a reduced price and they dont want people just transfering Windows (Like you can do with FPP).
If you usually have the need to upgrade a mobo, you have Windows FPP and not OEM. Really, this is meant for buying these types of PCs in bulk for something like an office or a school.

I know why they do it.  I'm not disagreeing with it.  I'm disagreeing with their "If it breaks, you're fucked.  Buy the OS again." attitude.

[Warrior]

In the .rtf it mentioned "Defective motherboard" not sure if that covers it become damaged overtime and needing a replacement though.

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57535#msg57535 date=1140937643]
In the .rtf it mentioned "Defective motherboard" not sure if that covers it become damaged overtime and needing a replacement though.

I've almost had to upgrade motherboards (because of the lack of a wanted/required feature) more than I've had to replace due to failure.  Again, I completely agree with their security measures, but I completely disagree that they will not make exceptions for instances that are due to "Acts of God" (catchall for power-surge, degeneration, etc).

[Warrior]

I agree it's pretty lame if they don't, all the times I've said that I've gotten it activated. Well except for onetime, then I just told him I was going to find a serial on the internet and hungup.

[Ergot]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57544#msg57544 date=1140938971]
Well except for onetime, then I just told him I was going to find a serial on the internet and hungup.

lol gg. Record it next time :P

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57544#msg57544 date=1140938971]
I agree it's pretty lame if they don't, all the times I've said that I've gotten it activated. Well except for onetime, then I just told him I was going to find a serial on the internet and hungup.

I think it's probably different when you have to tell them you're using the OEM version.  Maybe I'm wrong, though. :)

Haha @ hanging up on Microsoft telling them that when they have all of your information. :)

[Warrior]

They didnt really get much info hard to remember though.

[Joe]

How about if the OS keeps track of what you replace, and when you have replaced the original equipment it'll stop working :O why didn't they think of that eh?!

They have.  Have you ever worked on one of the newer (last 4 years or so) retail computers?  By retail, I mean Dell, Gateway, eMachines, etc.

Uhh... I've never worked extensively with them, I have replaced a CD drive on a Dell PC. Pain the ass .

I've replaced a two CD drives, a hard drive, a modem, and added a video card to my Dell PC. Oddly enough, the only thing that required a reinstall was the modem. ^_-

EDIT -

The CPU, Memory and Hard drive are vital for the performance of the computer.

Commodore 128 didn't have a hard drive, but it was still awesome.

[iago]

How about if the OS keeps track of what you replace, and when you have replaced the original equipment it'll stop working :O why didn't they think of that eh?!

They have.  Have you ever worked on one of the newer (last 4 years or so) retail computers?  By retail, I mean Dell, Gateway, eMachines, etc.

Uhh... I've never worked extensively with them, I have replaced a CD drive on a Dell PC. Pain the ass .

I've replaced a two CD drives, a hard drive, a modem, and added a video card to my Dell PC. Oddly enough, the only thing that required a reinstall was the modem. ^_-

You didn't have to reinstall when you changed your harddrive?  How did you pull THAT off, exactly?

[deadly7]

Maybe he replaced something that wasn't C:\?

[Ergot]

Umm, I don't know but the Dell I worked on had these anti-screwdriver covers over their screws. Unfortunately they were flexible enough to allow my screwdriver in, barely though; it was all slanted and stuff.

[Sidoh]

Commodore 128 didn't have a hard drive, but it was still awesome.

Who cares?  That's not even close to being related to this topic.

[Joe]

You didn't have to reinstall when you changed your harddrive?  How did you pull THAT off, exactly?

I guess I had a brainfart when I posted that. But yeah, I changed ex-C: to D:.

Who cares?  That's not even close to being related to this topic.

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer. A Commodore 128 was a computer. It didn't have a hard drive. Hard drives are not needed.

That was more of an example to Warrior: Although it's true, it's stupid. =p

[iago]

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer

No, a harddrive is where the OS lives.

[Sidoh]

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer. A Commodore 128 was a computer. It didn't have a hard drive. Hard drives are not needed.

Find a computer that even begins to relate to this topic with no hard drive, please.

[Warrior]

That was more of an example to Warrior: Although it's true, it's stupid. =p

Sit down Joe.

[Joe]

x86] link=topic=4960.msg57826#msg57826 date=1141098618]

That was more of an example to Warrior: Although it's true, it's stupid. =p

Sit down Joe.

I am sitting, Messiah.

[Chavo]

Their call-in support for the activation is actually pretty lenient.  When XP was still fairly new I had to send in my laptop for warranty repair.  During this time I borrowed an unused computer from home, installed the same copy of XP on the temp machine, called them up and even though not a single piece of hardware was the same as the original installation, the guy on the phone just asked a few basic questions like how long I would have the temporary machine and whether I owned it.

Not all that shocking, but what surprised me was when I received my laptop back, I had to reinstall XP (it did not come with the laptop and they ended up replacing my hard drive) and the Activation did not complain even though the key was simultaneously in use on my temp machine.

[Sidoh]

Their call-in support for the activation is actually pretty lenient.  When XP was still fairly new I had to send in my laptop for warranty repair.  During this time I borrowed an unused computer from home, installed the same copy of XP on the temp machine, called them up and even though not a single piece of hardware was the same as the original installation, the guy on the phone just asked a few basic questions like how long I would have the temporary machine and whether I owned it.

I believe they've cracked down more.  As I think I've mentioned, my friend always used to call tech support and say "My hard drive crashed and I reinstalled the OS."  It always worked, even though the copy of XP he had was one I'd gotten off of the internet and burned to a CD for him.  One of the kids in my school was having some problems with their computer a while ago, so I offered to install a fresh copy of XP for him.  I did, and told him about the activation trick.  He said he tried it, but they kept asking questions he couldn't answer without telling obvious lies.  Of course, he said something about the problem being with "Microsoft Office Activation" (I know it exists, but it's not going to keep you from being able to log in to your machine...), so I'm fairly certain he's pulling shit out of his ass just so I'd do it for him.

Not all that shocking, but what surprised me was when I received my laptop back, I had to reinstall XP (it did not come with the laptop and they ended up replacing my hard drive) and the Activation did not complain even though the key was simultaneously in use on my temp machine.

Hahah, that's pretty funny.  There are definitely some loopholes in their system.  I'm sure they're aware they exist, too.  They probably just conclude that it isn't worth the amount of pain their absence would cause them.

[GameSnake]

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer

No, a harddrive is where the OS lives.

Then the harddrive IS needed!

[iago]

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer

No, a harddrive is where the OS lives.

Then the harddrive IS needed!

Only if the OS needs somewhere to live.  Don't jump to conclusions!

[Sidoh]

The original purpose of this thread refers to "modern" day computers (meaning ones that do have hard drives).  It's an essential component of a modern day computer, that's my point.

[GameSnake]

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer

No, a harddrive is where the OS lives.

Then the harddrive IS needed!

Only if the OS needs somewhere to live.  Don't jump to conclusions!

So it's a needed part of the computer isn't it?

[Joe]

It was said that the harddrive was a needed part of the computer

No, a harddrive is where the OS lives.

Then the harddrive IS needed!

Only if the OS needs somewhere to live.  Don't jump to conclusions!

So it's a needed part of the computer isn't it?

Going back to my point about the Commodore: It didn't have a hard drive (it did, if you installed one externally, and put AmigaOS or whatever on it, but that's beside the point), but still worked.


---

@Sidoh:
I could remove the HD from my computer right now, stick in a Linux LiveCD, have my network card autoconfigured, and log on Gaim and talk to you (if you unblock me) and post here on the forums, all without a hard drive. Does that relate to the modern day enough for you?

[Chavo]

Actually, I believe that a hard drive is less essential in the 'modern' computer than it was say 10 years ago.  Flash memory has advanced quite a bit.  If a device doesnt need more than a few gigs of storage room, a hard drive is not necessary at all.

[Sidoh]

@Sidoh:
I could remove the HD from my computer right now, stick in a Linux LiveCD, have my network card autoconfigured, and log on Gaim and talk to you (if you unblock me) and post here on the forums, all without a hard drive. Does that relate to the modern day enough for you?

It's not practical, Joe.  Use your brain.

[Blaze]

I can run my computer without a harddrive.

[Sidoh]

I can run my computer without a harddrive.

Use your brain.

[iago]

The point isn't that a harddrive is critical to being a computer, it's that a harddrive is critical to the OS.  If the harddrive is replaced, the OS has to be replaced.  Otherwise, the OS shouldn't have to be. 

That's the issue.  Not whether or not you can get by without a harddrive in hypothetical situations. 

[Sidoh]

The point isn't that a harddrive is critical to being a computer, it's that a harddrive is critical to the OS.  If the harddrive is replaced, the OS has to be replaced.  Otherwise, the OS shouldn't have to be. 

That's the issue.  Not whether or not you can get by without a harddrive in hypothetical situations. 

Exactly.  Thank you. :)

[Ergot]

I'd change that to, "A hard drive is critical to the Windows OS" or "A storage medium is critical to an OS".

[Chavo]

I'd change that to, "A hard drive is critical to the Windows OS" or "A storage medium is critical to an OS".

Windows can install to a flash drive just as easily as linux can....

[Warrior]

shh, let them think that. They need something to hold on to.

[iago]

Ok, that doesn't matter! 

[d&q]

It wouldn't really change anything. If all computers were generally shipped with a flash drive as the main storage medium for the OS, that means if the flash drive was removed, the OS would be removed, essentially requiring a new key for the same computer. I think it's just that in this particular case, its hard drives.

Am I understanding this incorrectly ???