Question re: Constitution

[CrAz3D]

Where, in your quote, does it say that it's FOR the people of the USA? 

and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity

The people of the US wrote it to "secure Blessings of Liberty to ourselves..."

That seems like it means for the people of the USA

[Sidoh]

If they weren't writing it for the people of the United States, who were they writing it for?  Their dead grandparents?  Some arbitrary starving slave child in China?  The constitution is the document describing the fundamental rights of and laws governing a united states citizen.  It doesn't apply to anyone unless they're a member of the US.

[deadly7]

Am I the only one who fails to see what the hell this topic is about?

[dark_drake]

Am I the only one who fails to see what the hell this topic is about?

CrAz3D is building as to why illegal immigrants deserve nothing from the US.  iago is saying illegal immigrants should have Constitutional protection or something like that.  At least that's what my guess is 

[Sidoh]

Am I the only one who fails to see what the hell this topic is about?

Hell no.

[rabbit]

Hmm.  The Constitution was written by a bunch of guys who revolted against their government because they were mad.  If they failed, CrAz3D, you'd be saying something like:
"Oi, those blasted revolutionists tried to make a country, yeah?  Well they can bugger off.  *sips tea*"

Our country was formed by this process:
1. Europeans hated our ancestors, so they came here and stole the land from the natives
2. Europeans still hated them, and taxed them.
3. Our ancestors didn't like it, so they got mad, despite having more representation and lower taxes, not to mention better protection, than the South/Central American colonies.
4. Our ancestors started a war (equivalent of "I hate you and I'm never speaking to you again") so they would get their own way.
5. Britain said "fuck them, they aren't worth it."

Now, tell me how the Constitution was written by legal US citizens when the US wasn't recognized as a nation until after the revolutionary war?

[Sidoh]

Hmm.  The Constitution was written by a bunch of guys who revolted against their government because they were mad.  If they failed, CrAz3D, you'd be saying something like:
"Oi, those blasted revolutionists tried to make a country, yeah?  Well they can bugger off.  *sips tea*"

Our country was formed by this process:
1. Europeans hated our ancestors, so they came here and stole the land from the natives
2. Europeans still hated them, and taxed them.
3. Our ancestors didn't like it, so they got mad, despite having more representation and lower taxes, not to mention better protection, than the South/Central American colonies.
4. Our ancestors started a war (equivalent of "I hate you and I'm never speaking to you again") so they would get their own way.
5. Britain said "fuck them, they aren't worth it."

Now, tell me how the Constitution was written by legal US citizens when the US wasn't recognized as a nation until after the revolutionary war?

The United States was a country before the Constitution was written.  The Declaration of Independence separated the US from Great Brittan.

If this wasn't they case, why would they start the document "We the people of the United States..." if the United States didn't exist until after the document was written?

[Warrior]

Hmm.  The Constitution was written by a bunch of guys who revolted against their government because they were mad.  If they failed, CrAz3D, you'd be saying something like:
"Oi, those blasted revolutionists tried to make a country, yeah?  Well they can bugger off.  *sips tea*"

Our country was formed by this process:
1. Europeans hated our ancestors, so they came here and stole the land from the natives
2. Europeans still hated them, and taxed them.
3. Our ancestors didn't like it, so they got mad, despite having more representation and lower taxes, not to mention better protection, than the South/Central American colonies.
4. Our ancestors started a war (equivalent of "I hate you and I'm never speaking to you again") so they would get their own way.
5. Britain said "fuck them, they aren't worth it."

Now, tell me how the Constitution was written by legal US citizens when the US wasn't recognized as a nation until after the revolutionary war?

You know..we beat Britain battle for battle..it's not like they deemed us "Not worth it"..I'm sure they would of loved to still have the colonies under their control.

[rabbit]

Hmm.  The Constitution was written by a bunch of guys who revolted against their government because they were mad.  If they failed, CrAz3D, you'd be saying something like:
"Oi, those blasted revolutionists tried to make a country, yeah?  Well they can bugger off.  *sips tea*"

Our country was formed by this process:
1. Europeans hated our ancestors, so they came here and stole the land from the natives
2. Europeans still hated them, and taxed them.
3. Our ancestors didn't like it, so they got mad, despite having more representation and lower taxes, not to mention better protection, than the South/Central American colonies.
4. Our ancestors started a war (equivalent of "I hate you and I'm never speaking to you again") so they would get their own way.
5. Britain said "fuck them, they aren't worth it."

Now, tell me how the Constitution was written by legal US citizens when the US wasn't recognized as a nation until after the revolutionary war?

You know..we beat Britain battle for battle..it's not like they deemed us "Not worth it"..I'm sure they would of loved to still have the colonies under their control.

Without the French armada on our shores near the end, the British would have had thousands more troops on the ground, and we would most likely have lost.  Britain deemed the war not worth the effort, as they'd have to open another front in Europe against France, which they didn't feel like doing.

Anyway, @Sidoh, oops.  I mix the two up :|

[Warrior]

Hmm.  The Constitution was written by a bunch of guys who revolted against their government because they were mad.  If they failed, CrAz3D, you'd be saying something like:
"Oi, those blasted revolutionists tried to make a country, yeah?  Well they can bugger off.  *sips tea*"

Our country was formed by this process:
1. Europeans hated our ancestors, so they came here and stole the land from the natives
2. Europeans still hated them, and taxed them.
3. Our ancestors didn't like it, so they got mad, despite having more representation and lower taxes, not to mention better protection, than the South/Central American colonies.
4. Our ancestors started a war (equivalent of "I hate you and I'm never speaking to you again") so they would get their own way.
5. Britain said "fuck them, they aren't worth it."

Now, tell me how the Constitution was written by legal US citizens when the US wasn't recognized as a nation until after the revolutionary war?

You know..we beat Britain battle for battle..it's not like they deemed us "Not worth it"..I'm sure they would of loved to still have the colonies under their control.

Without the French armada on our shores near the end, the British would have had thousands more troops on the ground, and we would most likely have lost.  Britain deemed the war not worth the effort, as they'd have to open another front in Europe against France, which they didn't feel like doing.

Anyway, @Sidoh, oops.  I mix the two up :|

So france was our ally? The fact that ragtag militia defeated the worlds most powerful army is something amazing. Sure they would of won if they would of gone zerg and sent thousands of troops..

[iago]

Ok, just about everybody who's posted here needs to learn to read. 

Crazed posted a quote from the constitution, and drew completely incorrect and totally false conclusions from it to further his viewpoint.  I pointed out that he was drawing the wrong conclusion.

I didn't say anything about illegal immigrants having rights or anything like that.  Those were implications he was trying to make with text that wasn't there. 

I think it's important to look at what Lincoln said about "all men are created equal", but that's an entirely different topic. 

[Warrior]

Hey..I agreed with you!

[iago]

Hey..I agreed with you!

That's why I said "just about everyone"

[CrAz3D]

Hmm.  The Constitution was written by a bunch of guys who revolted against their government because they were mad.  If they failed, CrAz3D, you'd be saying something like:
"Oi, those blasted revolutionists tried to make a country, yeah?  Well they can bugger off.  *sips tea*"

Our country was formed by this process:
1. Europeans hated our ancestors, so they came here and stole the land from the natives
2. Europeans still hated them, and taxed them.
3. Our ancestors didn't like it, so they got mad, despite having more representation and lower taxes, not to mention better protection, than the South/Central American colonies.
4. Our ancestors started a war (equivalent of "I hate you and I'm never speaking to you again") so they would get their own way.
5. Britain said "fuck them, they aren't worth it."

Now, tell me how the Constitution was written by legal US citizens when the US wasn't recognized as a nation until after the revolutionary war?

The Rebolutionary War ended 1783
The US Constitution took effect 1789 after the Article of Confederation failed (when we were already a cuntry)
The people that voted for/against/wrote the Constitution were United States citizens.

Ok, just about everybody who's posted here needs to learn to read. 

Crazed posted a quote from the constitution, and drew completely incorrect and totally false conclusions from it to further his viewpoint.  I pointed out that he was drawing the wrong conclusion.

But you haven't said WHY I've come to the wrong conclusion, you just said I'm wrong.

Sidoh seems to be on the same track I am on.

If they weren't writing it for the people of the United States, who were they writing it for?  Their dead grandparents?  Some arbitrary starving slave child in China?  The constitution is the document describing the fundamental rights of and laws governing a united states citizen.  It doesn't apply to anyone unless they're a member of the US.

And yeah, I didnt start this thread with the full purpose explained, I just wanted to see what everyone else thought of the "our" parts.

[Super_X]

Any one in America, or dirrectally effected by America should be treated like US citizens in regards to the Constitution.