Finally...

[Screenor]

x86] link=topic=6905.msg85763#msg85763 date=1154865030]
Yeah Sidoh, wasn't your raid like 20-manning Naxx or something rediculously amazing like that? You shouldn't talk about PvP stuff when you're decked out in full tier 4 like that. :)

They're not 20 manning Naxx... Also there is no tier 4 armor.

[Sidoh]

Hehe. Trust me, your priest would beat my hunters' ass. 1v1, I personally am terrible. Lag, plus lack of PvP experience, plus very terrible gear. If you get one fear off, I'd be toast, lol.

And, duh. ;) But, if it was holy a holy spell, than priests in shadowform wouldn't be able to cast it. At least, to my knowledge?

Oh, haha.  I see what you're saying.  Yeah, it's a discipline spell, but it's a 10 minute buff with 20 charges, so it wouldn't matter a whole lot even if it was.

Sidoh plays on an RP server, so from what he's told me I've never been impressed by the "skill" of players there. That's why when he tells me anything relevant to pvp I just ignore him because he's usually wrong. I don't know how it is with other RP servers, but when cross-realm BG's come out and I'm pugging with Thorium Brotherhood I'm not expecting to see much.

Just because the average player I face on Feathermoon isn't good doesn't mean that I'm not good.  It doesn't take much intelligence to realize how to beat another class, Screenor.  Don't think you're more sagely than I just because you play on a PvP server... I'm perfectly capable of PvP.  Casting an inherent shroud of superiority for a silly reason like you are is foolish.

x86] link=topic=6905.msg85763#msg85763 date=1154865030]
Yeah Sidoh, wasn't your raid like 20-manning Naxx or something rediculously amazing like that? You shouldn't talk about PvP stuff when you're decked out in full tier 4 like that. :)

Onyxia.  They 10 manned Onyxia months ago, but that's not a big deal.  I have Tier 2.  Tier 4 isn't even out yet. ;\

[Screenor]

Just because the average player I face on Feathermoon isn't good doesn't mean that I'm not good.  It doesn't take much intelligence to realize how to beat another class, Screenor.  Don't think you're more sagely than I just because you play on a PvP server... I'm perfectly capable of PvP.  Casting an inherent shroud of superiority for a silly reason like you are is foolish.

The fact is you play against shitty opponents, sure, you can use skills to counter theirs, however hunters will ALWAYS have something up to keep you away from them. I don't doubt your skill, but you cannot tell me hunters and warlocks are "balanced". If either of those classes lose to a rogue they're just bad, period.

[Sidoh]

The fact is you play against shitty opponents, sure, you can use skills to counter theirs, however hunters will ALWAYS have something up to keep you away from them. I don't doubt your skill, but you cannot tell me hunters and warlocks are "balanced". If either of those classes lose to a rogue they're just bad, period.

This is not the case.  I doubt even the majority of the opponents I face/have faced are 'shitty.'  You're being terribly prejudice.  I will admit that there are probably more bad players on Feathermoon than the average PvP server, but then again, all you've seen is some light world PvP.  Have you even played one 60's BG?

I can tell you that Hunters and Warlocks are balanced for the same reason I already tried to bring up: the whole game doesn't revolve around PvP.  Yes, I'm aware that both Warlocks and Hunters are generally good against some classes and find ease in defeating them, but you must realize that the same is true for those same classes.  Priests can beat Hunters pretty easily.  I've dueled the best PvP hunter in our guild (Field Marshal) and won without much of a problem... and that's without a single point in shadow.  Warlocks don't have the targetted DPS ability that mages have.  Hunters do great with DPS in raids, but they're not hard to beat if you try.

Fortunately, this game isn't meant to be equally balanced accross the table.  Classes are supposed to have staggered abilities.  Hunters are supposed to be able to beat a Rogue easily 1v1.  However, when you have the element of surprise on a hunter, how hard is it for you to beat them?

[Towelie]

1v1 against a hunter, they are cake... but in AV and I have half health and targetting someone else, I quickly die if I dont have death coil up :-/

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=6905.msg85791#msg85791 date=1154890934]
1v1 against a hunter, they are cake... but in AV and I have half health and targetting someone else, I quickly die if I dont have death coil up :-/

I think Warlocks are one of the easier classes to take down for a Rogue in a battleground situation.  Death Coil sucks, but so does Insignia of the Alliance. ;)

Would you agree, Screenor?  They seem easier than a mage... they can't slow you down, they can't immobilize you, they can't instantly teleport themselves 20 yards away from you AND break your stuns at the same time, they don't have a fucking shield that absorbs an ambush.. etc.

Don't get me wrong, though... DoT kiting is a cruel and effective strategy. :p

[Towelie]

x86] link=topic=6905.msg85791#msg85791 date=1154890934]
1v1 against a hunter, they are cake... but in AV and I have half health and targetting someone else, I quickly die if I dont have death coil up :-/

I think Warlocks are one of the easier classes to take down for a Rogue in a battleground situation.  Death Coil sucks, but so does Insignia of the Alliance. ;)

Would you agree, Screenor?  They seem easier than a mage... they can't slow you down, they can't immobilize you, they can't instantly teleport themselves 20 yards away from you AND break your stuns at the same time, they don't have a fucking shield that absorbs an ambush.. etc.

Don't get me wrong, though... DoT kiting is a cruel and effective strategy. :p

Amplified Curse of Exaustion. GG Deathcoil + fear + amped CoE = oh noes, you are 20 yards away and doted up and walking!

[Joe]

@Sidoh: You seriously have only tier2? I thought your raid was like, the best there is, period, finished with Naxx and emailing Blizzard daily to release another dungeon because you got bored. :). Tier 4 was obviously an exageration of how good I thought your raid was doing. I was just saying that I thought you had nearly the best gear in the game, period, and being a priest could rip anyone several new ones in a few seconds.

[Screenor]

Have I ever done a BG at 60? Yes, that's why I'm a higher pvp rank then either of your characters.

Death Coil sucks, but so does Insignia of the Alliance.

Yep, Insignia does suck, because it doesn't effect that shitty Death Coil.


I prefer fighting mages over warlocks as a dagger rogue, mainly because as long as they're not in pvp gear, they can be in full tier 2 and I can two shot them. I can understand swords however wanting to fight warlocks more then mages.

[Towelie]

Have I ever done a BG at 60? Yes, that's why I'm a higher pvp rank then either of your characters.

Death Coil sucks, but so does Insignia of the Alliance.

Yep, Insignia does suck, because it doesn't effect that shitty Death Coil.


I prefer fighting mages over warlocks as a dagger rogue, mainly because as long as they're not in pvp gear, they can be in full tier 2 and I can two shot them. I can understand swords however wanting to fight warlocks more then mages.

also, insignia does have a cooldown.

[Krazed]

Warlocks are never easy. A rogue sneaks up on you? Seduce, fear, Curse of Exhaustion, Corruption, Syphon Life, Immolate, fearx2. Game over.

[Sidoh]

x86] link=topic=6905.msg85811#msg85811 date=1154892480]
@Sidoh: You seriously have only tier2? I thought your raid was like, the best there is, period, finished with Naxx and emailing Blizzard daily to release another dungeon because you got bored. :). Tier 4 was obviously an exageration of how good I thought your raid was doing. I was just saying that I thought you had nearly the best gear in the game, period, and being a priest could rip anyone several new ones in a few seconds.

The best guild in the game (Death and Taxes) isn't even through Naxxrammas... We're through Blackwing Lair and almost through Ahn'Qiraj.

x86] link=topic=6905.msg85851#msg85851 date=1154911376]
also, insignia does have a cooldown.

Fortunately, it's rare that I meet the same opponent more than a couple of times within 5 minutes...

Have I ever done a BG at 60? Yes, that's why I'm a higher pvp rank then either of your characters.

I was referring to a 60's BG on Feathermoon...

Yep, Insignia does suck, because it doesn't effect that shitty Death Coil.

Death Coil fear lasts for what... 3 seconds?  It's more of a counter measure to prevent fear from getting inturupted.

I prefer fighting mages over warlocks as a dagger rogue, mainly because as long as they're not in pvp gear, they can be in full tier 2 and I can two shot them. I can understand swords however wanting to fight warlocks more then mages.

:/

[Towelie]

Death Coil fear lasts for what... 3 seconds?  It's more of a counter measure to prevent fear from getting inturupted.

That is exactly it. I use deathcoil to get melee off my ass (rogues especially) so I can get my fear in without interruption. Unless its a caster I am fighting... its not to get them off my ass but to make for an easier fear.

[Joe]

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if they dropped death coil's fear effect. I fight scourge all the time, so it doesn't really matter anyhow. The fear effect sucks against mobs because they run and aggro, especially in raids. I like to use it as a last ditch "shit I'm nearly dead, quick, health!" healing move, personally, or a quick 1k damage from Shadowbolt and an immediate Death Coil following.

[Screenor]

Sidoh: No, I completely understand a sword rogue wanting to fight a warlock more then a mage, trust me, I was one. :P But if you ever go daggers you'll see you'd rather fight mages.

Fact: D&T are gods.

Joe: My guild (Enclave) is almost as far as Sidoh's ex-guild in instance progression, we've gotten Twin Emps (AQ40) to 43%, I think he told me they got to 30%. Also, how do you like Sidoh's balls? Rolling 'em around enough? :-*